I would dearly love the World to do something about Syria and IS so that the Syrian people can go back to their homeland but that sure as fuck ainât going to happen.
So in the meantime Europe is stuck with a mass of humanity that needs somewhere to live, food, clothing, jobs etc. etc. etc. something that some countries are finding hard to give to their âownâ people!!
Donât ask me what the solution is as I have not a fucking clue.
Originally posted by @BTripz
I would dearly love the World to do something about Syria and IS so that the Syrian people can go back to their homeland but that sure as fuck ainât going to happen.
So in the meantime Europe is stuck with a mass of humanity that needs somewhere to live, food, clothing, jobs etc. etc. etc. something that some countries are finding hard to give to their âownâ people!!
Donât ask me what the solution is as I have not a fucking clue.
There are a number of solutions but they are not attractive as people need reelecting, hence the issue and probelm, the Middle East is run by despots and in our evr self righteousness we thought we could sort out out all the murdering by âtaking outâ the head honcho, when said honcho is gone he leaves a fuck off vacuum.
It needs carving up on tribal and religeous lines and we have to admit thats nothing we can do positive about it, they hate each other as much as they hate and resent us, I hate to write that and generalise but until poverty, religion are gone from those lands weâll never sort it and weâll always be used as a scapegoat, what can we do? Stay out? We get hammered, go in and we can done for as white colonialists again.
The solution? Create new Nations who respect all people, let Nations become caliphates and do whatever they do and close the door.
Originally posted by @Barry-Sanchez
What we do is say weâll give refuge to children 16 or under and anyone travelling as a family,men on their own can join the queue for economic reasons, sactuary for families and children.
Where will all these people go? Who will pay for this? Can assimilation be possible? Can they be forced to go to Portugal as opposed to Germany or Sweden? Why canât they get fingerprinted in Austria or Hungary?
This is the real Europe showing its real face, self interest and seeing the rules as they see fit (Germany needs 600,000 postions to be filled by the wayâŚ
I donât really know what youâre getting at with this post, Bazza.
Those pictures were really hard to look at (maybe as my children are the same age) and quite frankly compassion and caring is what sets us apart from most species. Europe should be doing more and itâs a fucking travesty that the hatred and fear of the right wing media holds so much sway.
What I am getting at is a spec of realism as opposed to a kneejerk reaction, I wonât even see that pciture as it will make me mad but what makes me angrier is how many photos of this are not taken, this is a photo used you could say by leftist or agenda driven media to force sympathy, sympathy! Only an absolute cunt would not be sympathetic to their plight but what do you suggest? Are you naive to believe humans care without agenda? Iâm am a socialst and I am not that fucking soft.
Youâre not the only one, Bob (referring to your last line)
As if this terrible situation isnât bad enough, it seems to me that it can only get much much worse as IS spreads its reign of terror wider and wider. In truth, itâs hard to think of a more thoroughly depressingly situation thatâs occurred during my life-time.
IS or ISIS are the edge of Islam that is desperate, as bad as this is and its awful these are the actions of desperate people trying to keep people in their places by religion, the modern World and globalisation is allowing people to see for the first time that it doesnât have to be this way, what we need to do is to be honest, freedom of movement the holiest of holies is gone and that says to me and it should to you what they think of it, when it suits them theyâll change the goalposts. Why if Europe is so equal are people allowed to travel when they arrive here in Europe to travel further on to their destionation of choice? Surely on two counts thats goes agaist the grain.
Uniity and togetherness will only happen when all agendas are laid upon the table, for my part the UK should still opt out and take in familes and under 16âs and no economic migrants.
I suppose it is time for a rant on this subject. Look it is a rambling rant but at least it isnât about golf.
First up I LOVE Syria, I have travelled there extensively and have many friends from there. I love their food and their culture and the shopping in Old Damascus. I even freaked Corporate America out by telling them it had the best Topless bars in the Middle East (true) and once opened a Corp level powerpoint of a Snowman I built at Maaloula.
I once spent two hours driving round Damascus trying to find a hotel showing us playing the Mancs (we lost 4-0 but I converted about 8 football fans and delivered about 6 shirts there!)
So. My rant. This mess started with George W Bush Snr not invading Iraq in the Gulf War 1. His nipper comes along and decides against ALL sane advice that Saddam is the Devil incarnate and invades Iraq a second time. You know the story, the protest marches, the dodgy WMD dossier. The KEY words that were first heard around this time were Regime Change. and of course Blair was there kissing ass. (YOUR party took us into this mess Corbyn so unless you dissolve it you are STILL responsible sorry - different rant)
Now the OTHER issue I get told off about is my level of Political Correctness compared to Brits. My issue is that my career used to be based on understanding the differences between cultures and religions (itâs called selling) - so I understand very well that a lot of what Saddam preached was about proving the size of his manhood. Yes of course he was a BAD PERSON. No question there, but in hindsight, while gassing a few thousand Kurds and torturing thousands more was a BAD THING (no question) it kind of pales into insignificance in the number of people who have died SINCE his deathâŚ
Which brings us to Syria. Yes there is NO DOUBT that Bashar ruled a pseudo Communist system. Power and decision making was in the hands oft he Party Members and IF you did not like that you were arrested and almost certainly disappeared. That was a BAD THING.
BUT. To normal people, you could go to University (some BLOODY GOOD Universities) I even lectured at some ffs. In fact their system was MUCH BETTER than the UK because the students did not come out of Uni in debt. IN GENERAL, 95% of the population could improve themselves and their families and could work and study AND travel. Of course to be an Entrepreneur you needed to find someone in the party to sponsor you, but then ffs isnât that (in GENERAL TERMS) the case in the UK Parliament? If you didnât go to Eton and all that?
But then came the post Iraq mess. It started in Tunisia. Oh how âTHE WESTâ and the global News Channels loved that story. The Arab Spring. Everyone came out and of course supported the concept of Democracy. Freedom. Itâs just that the people here didnât understand it. The West did NOTHING to actually help implement it. They bombed the crap out of Libya - of course. But the Nations themseleves had no âPolitical Classâ. They had no history of Democracy. What they needed was help with the Trainsition. But oh no, The US were far too busy making shit loads of money everytime a Maverick Missile was lobbed at some Nissan 4x4 pick up truck. EXACTLY the same as in Iraq. All rhetoric and NO action plan for once the objective was achieved.
FFS in all but name Al Qaeda eneded up running Egypt. The people did not know any better.
So then Syria. Bashar is a BAD PERSON so let us support the uprising. It was NEVER that simple. He was BAD (No Question) BUT he was managing to keep a country united with Christians, Copts, Shiaâs and Sunni all in their places and developing as a Nation. FFS William Hague tried to get âThe Westâ to bomb him when he was the only person on the planet trying to fight ISIS (And yes of course he was also fighting âDemocratsâ.
So anyway here you all are. You pulled out of Iraq. They still needed you, You pulled out of Afghanistan as a punter would pull out of a cheap whore. They were not ready but oh you left all the people that helped you behind. Not a bloody thought for them or their families, And you encouraged the Arab Spring that has destroyed Libya as a Nation (but itâs OK Gaddafi a BAD PERSON has gone who only probably killed 100,000 people and you lot have left a mess that has killed double that so far in only a couple of years.
And so now you have a flood. Of desperate human beings. You are screwed by your own PC industry because you are not allowed to truly distinguuish between the âIllegal Immigrantsâ ie Economic Refugees from Africa who made up a high percentage at Calias and the true Refugees from the Middle East. The IDIOTS running âThe Westâ created this mess and had NO action plan to create and guide stable societies. The decisions YOUR leaders have made have led to a scorched earth - where friends of mine have had to live in Cellars for two years in total terror.
Now they are at YOUR doorstep asking YOUR GOVERNMENTS for the help that THEY encouraged them to believe they would get.
Tony Blair, George W Bush and all their cornies being hidden in the Chilcott report should be finding accomodation for these poor souls. Bush should give over his Texas Ranch to build a City with Schools & Infrastructure to house & feed these poor bastards. And everyone involved in making public statements encouraging the Arab Spring but without ANY kind of plan should be paying out of their own pockets to transport these people to safety.
YOU tried to protest. But the decisions made since 9/11 has brough this mess. The utter SHAME on your Politicians and the EU over this issue is a total disgrace.
Sorry for the typos. It is late and I needed to get this off my chest. Oh and yes the small nations down here DID try and help they DID issue Visas until even they became swamped.
And may Allah punish every one of those Bastards who has defiled the beauty of Palmyra. Yes humans are suffering today, but those actions will affect Humanity for a long time to come.
Stop pussyfooting about and get bloody troops on the ground in Iraq and destroy Isis THEN finish the bloody job you all ran away from in Iraq & Afghanistan and go into Syria WITH the Iranians and sort that goddam mess out.
Rant over.
Sorry to have typoâd you and bored you and I know nobody will read it all but I needed to put it out there somewhere
Goodnight
An interesting insight Phil.
It seems clear now that we became involved in poorly-planned actions that have eventually resulted in bodies washing up on the beach.
We are now saying there is nothing we can do to help, like we are some sort of international coward.
Mr Cameron, donât make me ashamed of being English, my country is better than that.
We help people, we offer justice, we have integrity - and in the next few weeks we donât want to be standing on a beach, knee deep in dead children, continuing to make feeble excuses for why we refuse to help.
JOLLY BHOY @fultybhoy4
Bus stop in Liverpool
The game changed yesterday.
Now to see how they soundbite their way out of the impact of that photo.
The petition that I linked in the other thread has now passed 100K signatures. I am guessing that the image of the dead child has finally brought home what many have been known has been going on for years. Iâm not just talking migrants, Iâm talking about the indiscriminate deaths of all the people in those regions since the US administration of the day decided it wanted to build its New American Century on the bonepiles.
We didnât really have the critical reporting of the Iraq War that we eventually saw in the reporting of Vietnam, in which a public was repulsed by the decisions being taken in its name. We should have had that, but the pervading culture of fear stopped that in its tracks. Who knows, if more focus had been placed on the suffering victims that the stated (and false) objectives of Western interevention, this poor kid might not have had to make this fatal trip.
We destabilised the whole region and our governments are apparently okay with that. When the consequences of that destabilisation arrive wet and hungry on our shores, or worse, our leadership doesnât want to know, despite the fact that its decisions have exacerbated the crisis.
OK. Let us all just take a step back a moment.
Something is not right. I donât mean the horror of that poor kid or the âswarmsâ. But something is very not right and the Media/Investigative Journalists have missed something.
The Syrian âUnrestâ began in 2011 and rapidly became a complex faction driven Civil War. Not an issue not a point for discussion.
ISIS developed very quickly from that mess and poured into Iraq. The ONLY people who actually stood up and fought ISIS were the Kurds in Northern Iraq.
Syrian & Iraqi Refugees by the HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS were housed in refugee camps in TURKEY. With huge Aid efforts in place by the global agancies.
Those have been in place for some 3 to 4 years.
What has changed? Why have we suddenly seen a change from a âtrickleâ of âillegal immigrantsâ to a âCrisis at Calaisâ to a FLOOD of despair in a matter of weeks?
What has happened at the Camps in Turkey? Why the sudden flood NOW? Why not 3 years ago?
Is it the change in Turkeyâs attitude? They signed a deal with the US a couple of months ago and began attacking? The Kurds not ISIS ffs.
This flood of humanity SHOULD have happened 2 or 3 years ago. âThe siege of Alleppoâ, that was 3 years ago and affected millions.
I am not denying there is a desperate problem right now this minute, but somebody somewhere needs to question the timing and what changed. Someone needs to go and look at Turkey and do some digging
Not impressed with Saint Armstrongâs take on this over at TSW.
Is it right for the media to use images of refugee tragedy?
Yes, Connor. Itâs your feelings that are important.
Donât ISIS get some of the blame? That horrific photo proves how ignorant people are and biased, what about the gays thrown of buildings? Women stoned to death? Reminds me if AI, very sad indeed.
We should take in women, children and people fleeing persecution but economic migrants with no travel documents have to register in the first EU country they reach, thatâs only fair,
I donât like looking at pictures of dead babies either. If I was buying newspaper and it said on front âEXCLUSIVE Pictures of Dead Babies!!! Full colour!!! See pages 4-7. Do not miss these dead babies!â, then i would not buy that newspaper prob.
Well, Iâm slightly less narked by Connor after having a Twitter beef with him, but I do think his question was not only redundant, but is bound to lead to the situation where some answers are in the vein of âyes, I shouldnât have to see these thingsâ. His personal views are fine, just needs to jump off the fence with his thread titles.
lol what is ur twitter beef about? Did strongarms mug you off?
Also are you deffo sure you ainât ban frbl, he seems to be missing + donât recall authorising any holiday or anything?
Originally posted by @Bearsy
lol what is ur twitter beef about? Did strongarms mug you off?
Nah, I asked him if he was proud of his thread. Heâs like âwell hey, I think we should helpâ whereas Iâm all like âdo you understand free pressâ. Quite worrying that an aspiring journo is asking questions about whether the press should be limited, even if he doesnât think so himself.
Also are you deffo sure you ainât ban frbl, he seems to be missing + donât recall authorising any holiday or anything?
No, we havenât banned him or anything like that. We havenât banned anyone to date*
*Apart from Tokes, which was fair, because we let him back.
tell frbl he must post within 24 hours or he is ban, cos we worry.
I smirked.
Emigration is completely out of control in this country, and Iâm sick of it. Iâm not staying quiet any more. You canât walk down a street in Jamaica or Hong Kong or India without hearing someone speaking English, and in Canada and Australia we have even introduced our own legal system, decimated local communities and installed our own head of state! DISGUSTING! English has now been imposed as the official language of 57 sovereign countries! FIFTY SEVEN!!! What the hell? Who do we think we are?! And the government is doing nothing: any British person can just pack their bags and go and live anywhere in the world at ANY TIME and nobody will do anything to stop them. If I wanted to, I could just get on a plane to Germany tomorrow, get a job in their booming economy and live there for the rest of my life! My parents could up and retire to Spain or Portugal at a momentâs notice! Why should we have that right? Itâs political correctness gone mad! (And itâs also probably, somehow, part of the war on Christmas and health and safety and women thinking itâs ok to wear comfortable, unsexy clothing.)
The figures speak for themselves:
1,300,000 Britons live in Australia; 761,000 in Spain; 678,000 in the USA (some of whom are proper dickheads like Piers Morgan); 603,000 in Canada; 291,000 in Ireland (11,200 of whom are drawing unemployment benefit from the Irish state), and even 8,500 in Mexico and 7,100 in Kuwait! Weâre literally EVERYWHERE! I bet thereâs at least one branch of Greggs in the Falklands.We need to close our borders immediately before the situation gets even worse for everyone else. We are sleepwalking into a nightmare where a third of the world will be overrun by the British! AGAIN!
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