:brexit: Brexit - The Ramifications

Reasonably serious discussion
6878

And therein lies the biggest paradox of this whole sorry saga. If we are all very honest, none of us know the real fallout/situation AFTER 2 or 3 years post transition period, eg when we will properly start to see the implications. Some believe it will be great, free from Brussels , our industrial might will expand globally and we will see a return to the pre EEC days of being an industrial force with positive balance of trade, low unemployment and leaders in Science, Tech and Services… others take a more pessimistic view in that it will take colossal investment to rebuild industry that fucked itself in the 70s, and was put to death by Mrs T in the 80s, replaced by swathes of service based employers… but i digress

The fact so many of the poorest voted Brexit is not that often mentioned - mostly its all about teh middle class southern rich voting for teh status quo as they are ‘all right Jack’ - which if we are also honest has a fair amount of truth in it… these are after all folk who have benefitted from work, travel and culture and cash from the last 30 years… and teh young folks who want to emulate and see more opportunity and flexibility being part of something bigger…

But the ‘poor’ voting Brexit is not that difficult to understand. Its been mentioned many times how the austerity post 2006 global financial crisis has seen a GLOBAL backlash politically against what has been seen as the ‘established elite’ that caused it… and the EU with all its additional undemocratic processes and challenges is an easy scapegoat… especially when you have this convincing chancers such as bubbly BOJO and Farage telling the poor they will all be earning 10x as much once we stop the polish plumbers coming over… and showing them images of immigration queues made up (bizarrely) of mostly non-europeans migrants…

… This is where the remainers cant win, as the brexit champions were VERY smart in their campaign… because if you dare suggest that they might just have told a few porkies that appealed to those who did not know any different, they scream back that ‘‘How dare you insult the intelligence of those voting brexit - No one believed that, no one would see anything sinister in Farage’s campaign, everyone was intelligent enough to know that Brexit would ‘not keep the Mullahs out’ , how dare you suggest all poor .brexiteers are racists etc… - Anyone who dares suggest that many, especially in more socially deprived areas, were easy targets for a blame culture, must be part of the arrogant middle-class elite’’… total bollocks, but certainly a common reposte

So I would hazard a guess that most who voted Brexit AND who are from more socially deprived areas and poor, did so with a simple belief that brexit would see their situation improve - to given them more opportunity for themselves and their families… that is NOT a bad thing (although a little ironic given that is what most economic migrants also want…)… the only problem I have is that they have been sold this dream without any factual basis, or any plan as to how it will be achieved… its been sold as a ‘hope’ nothing more to satisfy the ideological (commercial in some cases) whims of some of the most established politically elite in this country…

OK so sometimes hope is all you have, but when its peddled by Farage, BOJO, Gove, etc, pig fucking elite, it shows you the impact that 10 years of austerity had in this decision…

6879

So basically, they’re like children wanting sweeties are they? They are too thick to know what’s good for them but the intelligent elite do, so they’ll eat what they’re given and like it. It’s precisely that sort of arrogance from our ruling elite which lead to the leave result. Every major party campaigned on a stay ticket and still they got told where to put it, how much bigger do you think the leave majority would have been if just one of those three had recommended leaving?

2 Likes
6880

If only the Education System didn’t fail large parts of the population…

:lou_eyes_to_sky:

3 Likes
6881

Quite. :grin::grin:

1 Like
6882

Agree with the issue of ‘ruling class’ arrogance - without a doubt and it received a heavy kick up the arse… but that is a different issue than the question of whether the way folks voted was influenced by their ability/desire to understand the shit spouted by the very same elite on the Brexit side - to filter any facts or to see it for what it was… Even me saying that makes me look like a cunt, and that is that is how clever the ‘brexit elite’ are / same with Trumpcunt in the US - They created a situation where any critique of the decision is hailed as an insult to those who voted for it, despite they fact that they have manipulated the same voters to feel insulted… the critique is NOT about individual intelligence and abilities, but that the elite were able to exploit those disadvantaged by poorer education and most harmed by austerity and the resulting misery.

1 Like
6883

That doesn’t hold water when you consider that the vast majority of the elite campaigned strongly to remain. However thick they are, I refuse to believe that more than a few hardcore nutters took boris and rees mogg more seriously than the mainstream MPs advocating staying.

6884

That is the point though… the elite campaigned to remain and got a kicking in response to the austerity of the last 10 years - driven by the some other elite who fed this misconception that the EU was a great scapegoat… they have peddled a hope that things will get better without any factual basis, so the focus became other issues that are more tangible - migration, sovereignty etc, neither of which will likely have a major impact on improving the long term outlook for the poorest… this being driven by some of the biggest jokers who have convinced some they are not part of the elite - champions of the ‘will of the people’ - people they don’t really gave a flying fuck about…

6885

I do get annoyed about Brexit generalisations becoming defacto truths.

In recent hours even this thread is moving towards a generalisation that all people who voted for Brexit were thick or swayed by the Boris Bus.

In fact a great deal of educated people, professional people voted for Brexit (and I would have done) because of the creeping spread of political and legal integration not against immigration, trade or standardisation of business and technical specs.

Not knocking anyone on here but similar is now appearing more prevalent on twitter rants as well.

2 Likes
6886

Hmmmmmmmm

6887

I think its been made clear that we are not talking about ALL who voted one way or another, but it is fair to suggest it may have been enough to make a difference… those Brexit elite did not spend and campaign on the issues posters/bus for a joke, but because their intense research would have shown it would resonate with key voters who had the ability to swing this… its easy to now say, it had no impact and and everyone was far to clever and saw through it… but look how much publicity those controversial campaigned gave to the Brexit campaign… how can anyone suggest they would not have had any influence… its interesting to see that now everyone in the county is suddenly making intelligent and informed decisions…

6888

The point is the government are meant to be there to help to protect the most vulnerable in society. That is not happening if we crash out with no deal.

6889

Yawn - how you getting on with your analysis of the statistics I gave you the other day? Would you like some help, as I assume you’re struggling a bit?

6891

This all came from the point that the poor could get a lot poorer if we leave without a deal. @scotty made this about the fact that they voted for it, so they should live with it.

6892

I don’t personally think they’ll have to live with anything of the sort. There’s an assumption amongst remainers that our economy will automatically tank when we leave; I happen to disagree with that assessment. There will be less money, sure, but it’s not going to be the financial catastrophe that’s being spun. Imho, we’ve come through worse in the past.

3 Likes
6893

It will hit the financial services hardest jobs lost less bonuses, so a huge drop in the coke trade posh cars & Kuoni package tours

:roll_eyes:

1 Like
6894

No, you carry on assisting at the food banks and homeless shelters, mate :smiley:

The poor cannot be denied your immense sympathy.

6895

The problem is that we already have a low starting point… whilst the 'economy, employment is not hideous right now, this is only that way because of the austerity and low public spending that has been in place these last 10 years to the detriment of the poorest in society… What has happened to the GROWTH and prosperity forecast by brexiteers? Now they all seem to be suggesting, ‘‘well it wont be a catastrope, might be a little worse etc.’’… That in itself shows folks were lied to… folks are expecting a surge in our economy, milk and fucking honey as promised and promoted in brexiteer campaigns - even suggesting a mild decline pre ref was cast aside as project fear… now the same language is being used by the other side…

As mentioned, many voted brexit as they believed it will improve their circumstances, allow us to build our economy, remove the shackles of austerity, as they were told… not to settle for ‘it wont be a catastrophe’

This is why I am still so angry, perhaps most with the cunt Cameron for being more obsessed with his own skin than and pandering to the twats in his own party who are not even ideologically driven to Brexit, just self obsessed greedy fuckers who swath possibilities in the power vacuum and opportunities for their own financial reward… Its very easy to make sweeping statements that the ‘avast majority’ will have voted against undemocratic principles in the EU… sorry but as will all elections, the swinging minority who actually determine the outcome, vote on very selfish lines and in this case in the belief Brexit would improve their situation…

6896

… and tax revenue…

6897

I’ve always said the poorest and the North voted Brexit, I have never not said it, if you have nothing and some of these people do have nothing they voted solely to hurt the people in power, and they’ll do it again if given the option.
Its most striking when middle class Labour MP’s tell the poorest in society they’re better of in the EU, they can get to fuck the bastards, they know nothing of the lives some people lead and have.
Scorched earth policy? Probably and I don’t blame them for that view, I’d do the same.

6898

Unfortunately, if you think this is the worst part of Brexit financially, then I think you’re going to be disappointed.

The point is at the moment we have poverty issues, and if there is going to be less money in the future (as you say), these are the people that are going to suffer with that loss.