That’s very much a Conservative set of values in assessing worth though, isn’t it? A government of any other stripe would have different selection criteria.
You would hope so. As said, collaboration is key and freedom of movement promotes that. There is a reason why the scientific community is so concerned. Most Life Science is done beyond national borders these days - and Brexit has already had an impact. Perhaps it will be worth it.
What is perhaps More concerning is the level of overall funding, much of which comes from EU industry. Whilst there eventually be mechanisms to expediates such investment I have no doubt, we will lose a fair bit of our academic leadership over the next few years if the investment dries up… the top folks go where the money is, bad enough many go US, but this will hit our scientifically nd research community… and that is not scaremongering…
Apologies for the long tome… been travelling within the EU so trying to respond to many of the themes of the last few days…
Pap, I’ll hand it too you, you do seem to have a lot of time on your hands to find and read stuff, but they do seem to be more frequent than you presenting an original thought on the subject? We could all find articles that support our point of view and it adds little to the debate…
The big problem with that piece is no different from what you and others accused us Remainers of… that we somehow suggested ALL bexiteers were bigoted and ignorant… not sure anyone ever did in earnest, but what that piece fails to acknowledge is that there many who were ignorant on Both sides and certainly many bigots on the Brexit side. To ignore that is just plain ridiculous.
The real question has always been whether the numbers were influential in the way the vote went and whether democracy is truly served when there is complexity over an issue that many don’t understand … that is insulting no one, I don’t have a scoob of the macro economics that will kick in when we leave with or without a deal… but I know enough to know it’s a concern. And that supply and demand is NOT the only factor in wage inflation…) The point is Pap, you seem to believe that because the question was a simple in or out that somehow the ability to understand the consequences was not relevant to a democratic decision…
That is naive. There are a fair few on both sides who voted as they did based on their ideology. A pure and solid belief in either the value of a UK independence from the excesses of the EU parliament and Commission vs those that believe that for its failings (which are many) the EU ideal is one that is worth persevering with… and for those in these groups nothing will sway them and the question was as complex as it needed to be.
However for what I believe to be a number with enough influence to sway things, they voted based on what they were worried about (immigration, EU excess, and a load of other stuff) or economic collapse, loss of certain freedoms etc ) - and in all these cases there has been a complete and utter shit storm of misinformation and crap spouted… given the massive long term implications of such a decision, I will not accept that democracy was best served under such circumstances… that is not anti-democratic, if anything it’s because I belive strongly in democracy that I find its so ridiculous that such a situation was ever branded thus, and even more so that there appear to be some who want to shout down such opinion in a Trump like urban myth creation… call us all anti-democratic enough and maybe it will shut us up? It stared with Remoaners Zzzz, when that did not stop us, it’s escalated…
You have argued about EU control over ‘sovereign’ states But you forget that those countries who entered into the EURO and economic union did so with eyes open - it’s part of the deal that if local budgets put the larger EU economy at risk than there is an option to intervene. For you that is abhorrent… we get it you have laboured the point, but you forget it’s the whole purpose of the Union… and if the Italians don’t like it they can leave, it’s not a gun to their heads.
It is obvious to me that there are many in the UK that Simply don’t feel European… that have a greater affinity with say the US English speakers than our closer cousins… which is a little stranges since the average Brit will be made up of DNA from Saxony, France, Scandinavia, and let’s not forget Roman, so there has to be some reason why we culturally align ourselves elsewhere… ? Maybe that is changing, as the age distribution of the vote showed with those under 45 and most likely to be influenced by it voting Remain… but the EU won’t get better unless we were a strong part of it… once we have gone, the balance shifts towards many of the smaller newer members and that may not be for the best… I am sure that provides you with a delicious sense of schardenfreude given your at times distateful comments about the Germans, but for most of Europe it’s a concern, given the role the EU has played in unity and freedom and economic development in many countries post WWII and post Collapse of Soviet block… the stand back and get the pop corn out attitude is really incomprehensible
Fuck Brexit - I’m moving here
Scientists of all levels succeed through getting things done - experiments. Often, projects require integration of niche expertise in order to achieve an overall aim. Together with the need to beat the competition by ‘getting there first’, the choice of where to work is driven by money and talent. Brexit will reduce the availability of both.
Presumably the expectation is that visas will be granted (this will need to be done from Masters level at least to maintain the talent pool) and extra money found to offset what was lost. I don’t reckon student visas and more expensive Science was what the people who’d never voted before were in favour of. I expect it was barely considered at all. Certainly I never heard it mentioned by them at parents evenings, sports day or numerous other occasions when chatting with the Portslade Brexit massive.
It must be great being Mr Embery, tweeting one side of the story to create a perfect sound bite for his rather sycophantic followers as if his opinion is worth more than anyone elses…
… the concerns around Italy’s dangerous levels of debt and it’s ability to service it only mentioned in the link… someone should tell him that ones opinion becomes more compelling if you lay out the arguments and then express what has most influenced is POV… context is key
I suggest that the fact it’s the first time Brussels has ‘interfered’ is because it quite rightly does not want further debt escalation that could create another Greece… its very easy to make this an emotive case picking on what would be fantastic budgetary components where they affordable … or that without those pesky kids in Brussels they would be able to do as they please… fine, let them go and fuck up their economy even more… and then who is responsible for their plight? Do we just turn our backs and look away and blame their unstable and fragile Government, or the people for voting the way they do?
They joined the EURO to get the very inputs and support they will get when things go wrong… but that means Being part of a club all the time, not just on certain issues…
It’s not the first time that Brussels has interfered in Italian politics. They’ve replaced the administration with technocrats before.
I also think the EU would be quite up for another Greece.
Nah. The German banks need to get some bad debts back. Greece won’t repay anything other than some interest for decades.
Again another clear Leave reason gets lost. EU had rules especially Eurozone. UK applied them, everyone else just Maňaned them
Greece has had its infrastructure sold out from under it to pay back the debts. Remember that Syriza, elected to do debt restructuring, weren’t given the opportunity, and thanks to their membership of the Euro, the European Central Bank was able to threaten to cut the money off, just as it did in Cyprus.
One of the comments I saw was quite amusing.
The residents of Antenna are bound to give a good reception.
A jokes a joke, but come on Goaty this is a serious thread so keep it, er…real
I know it was not funny, but thought one of you scrotes would get it…
Viz? I must confess, one of my guilty pleasures…
Let’s face it, for a lot of people, Merkel was a cause/symptom that helped drive the Brexit vote, and seems that Germany now faces some uncertain post-Brexit times
Good she brought it upon herself, Merkel forced the Germans to accept her vanity project and to help the labour market in the Country but never once considered her nations wishes.
She’ll go down as a traitor to democracy.
Did anyone see this?
What a slimy little cunt Leo Varadkar is. With Barnier’s hand up his backside, he has increased the potential for trouble in NI.
Now he’s capitalising on it.