:brexit: Brexit - The Ramifications

:brexit: Brexit - The Ramifications
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#6477

Just another strand to add to an argument that the UK (read Engerland maybe?) is becoming increasingly petty, insular and more narrow minded.

Others will disagree obviously.


#6478

Others do disagree, including some high profile advocates of remaining in the EU. This is a long read, probably something to chew on over several evenings, but it is required reading, especially for those that are still refusing to engage the issue, how it arose, why the vote went the way it did.

Oddly enough, pettiness and insularity are not mentioned.


#6479

Some much needed humour.


#6480

I shall give it a read and maybe I’ll be converted, but alarm bells started ringing on reading in the intro:

“…Most of the writers here have a strong view on whether Brexit should happen, but they have been put aside for now, and instead they focus on reasons and responses from a Brexit-neutral position…”

Of course they are. Just like if it was. Remainer document. :rofl::rofl:

Good grief.


#6481

There are people on both sides of the argument. Some of the best pieces are from Remain campaigners that exhibit critical thinking on the failings of their own campaign, and their way of doing politics in general.

I did rather enjoy this from Jon Trickett, from the other side of the debate.

Certain Remainers’ claims that the referendum
result should be discounted display a lack of
democratic faith. There were attempts to depict
Leavers as naive and ignorant, easily deceived by
figures and slogans.

The notorious bus suggesting we divert the “£350
million every week” spent on the EU to fund the
NHS was used to show Leavers as gullible rather
than focusing on the falsehoods of the Leave
campaign.

If you could discount a result due to
lies in a campaign, it would rule out most elections
in history. But the bus served the convenient
purpose of revealing Leavers to be easily led and,
for some, not deserving of a vote.

Such arguments lie just beneath the common
claim that Leavers ‘voted against their own
interests’. Many repeat the supposed irony that
regions that voted for Brexit are likely to be the
economically hardest hit.4 As Joan C Williams has
pointed out in her US study, the working class are
used to being told that they’re bad patients, bad
spouses or bad parents by middle class doctors,
lawyers and teachers.

If the working class cannot
make good choices about their own lives, how can
they be trusted with the fate of the nation?
But progressives may have missed a chance
to examine a phenomenon they’d long argued
for: that political ideals can trump economic
self-interest. Some undoubtedly recognise that
certain groups felt excluded from, as well as
impoverished by, the political process. And they
can see that Brexit is a response to legitimate
grievances. But the demand may not have been
just ‘to be heard’; it may have been an assertion
of power, a questioning of authority and a demand
for respect. It is frustrating not to be heard, but
it is worse to be heard and then ignored. Worst of
all is to be heard and told that you’re ignorant or
bigoted.


#6482

Indeed @pap. Indeed


#6483

Time will tell…


#6484

So the types of people we would be likely to give work visas to post Brexit

I reckon that scientists might be close to the top of that list…


#6485

If the funding is still there.


#6486

Whatever anyone’s views on the “some people’s second vote” March, this bloke has to be the biggest cunt going.


#6487

He reckons he was referring to the father.


#6488

Nein!


#6489

Can you explain why it is a problem @pap ?


#6490

Yes. Italy is supposed to be a sovereign democracy. It’s people pay their taxes for many reasons, but above all else, to have a say in how tax revenue is spent and how the country’s finances are governed.

How much is that Italian national vote worth?

Close to fuck all, if the EU is dictating the economic framework and is placing financial external constraints on its elected leaders.

Back to you, sir. Why do you think it’s not a problem, and perhaps more interestingly, how would you feel if your elected leaders drew up a budget and were told by the EU to “do it again”?


#6491

The Italians will walk from the Euro and it’ll spark a huge meltdown, the promises they made to get in means they can’t concede, maybe the EU will buckle but the Italians won’t on this.


#6492

His excuse reads no better.
Did the child look like he felt his privacy was being invaded Mr Jackson?
A nasty person whoever he aimed it at.


#6493

Maybe. Post docs earn less than £40,000 so I guess that might be an issue? A bigger issue is scientific collaboration - people swap between groups in Euroland all the time, building up contacts and establishing careers. Brexit won’t help that sadly…


#6494

Frankly @pap they’d probably do a better job than our own esteemed politicians.

I really don’t get your constant little englander stance - it’s all about lines on a map or does the fact the UK is an island shape your political mind set. I’d suggest it probably does.

You throw around the word sovereignty quite a lot. Most of Europe has not had the stability to get a narrow mindset of “self”. Look back 50, 100, 200 or more - borders in constant change.

You seem to think that they’re wrong for not thinking like you do and poo pooing UK people who don’t agree with you.

You seem to want to argue beyond the point that it is interesting that you are right and others have the temerity to think otherwise.

Your arguments are not going to change those that are in you pro-Brexit camp. You may come out with the “victory”. Let’s hope it’s not pyrrhic eh?

I think I need to stop reading this thread (again)

:lou_facepalm_2:


#6495

The response from the political establishment – to label them little Englanders, racist or too stupid to understand the question – underscores why they are right to be angry. The referendum result was a political earthquake.

It should have been a wake-up call, but instead we skipped straight to the technical and legal debate failing to acknowledge, let alone address, what triggered the Leave vote in so many towns. With Britain now on course for a potential hard or no-deal Brexit, we are responding to an explosion with yet more fire.

Lisa Nandy MP, The Causes and Cures of Brexit

As I said yesterday, the Causes and Cures of Brexit has some very worthwhile contributions.


#6496

If his reply was his opening tweet, he’d have looked less of a twat. He does look like a twat. I suspect he has probably been misrepresented as well.

Saying all that, I think the only things I’d campaign for in that bloke’s position would be more funding for paediatric care and the NHS in general.

Complex old world, init.