:brexit: Brexit - The Ramifications

All part of the game Bob.
The whole thing is being deliberately dragged out just for that confusion. So who benifits from that?

In the interest of accuracy i think you should refer to Fox by his official title. ‘Disgraced former Defence Secretary Liam Fox’. Lets have it right!

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Not if they ever used political influence for a leave vote. Causing chaos for profit, at the tax payers expense, should be treasonous(I’d hope is already is).
Rest makes sense and i believe we have emergency provisions to allow essentials(food, they’re very concerned about food shortages) through without customs checks(better for EU companies, but might help our lot coming back, assuming they’re still in business).

Umm, we do have a 2 year transition period don’t we? Or did I dream that one up?

It’s not like things are going to suddenly change in the 29th April(it is that date isn’t it?)

See, why is that necessarily just linked to the Brexit vote, and not to the decrease in corporation tax that is now allowing companies to increase wages where they were previously squeezed?

I also think this could be transitional. As people leave the market due to the vote, there are companies in limbo until Brexit that have to fill those roles, temporarily increasing the wage market.

What happens when post Brexit those companies start to fail as we’re all aware, some will. Demand for Labour will decrease, wages will stagnate.

The thing is though, macro-economics, as well as fiscal and monetary policy is an incredibly complex area, and putting wage increases purely down to the Brexit vote is something you just can’t do, without looking a little bit of a prat.

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That can’t be right - because when I have said that @pap voted for the poor to get poorer he always denied that would happen. However now he is saying he prefers the risk that the poor would get poorer??

Not if there’s no deal.

We’re going to have a transition period regardless. I’d prefer to have one that wasn’t dictated by unelected bureaucrats.

There are very few people I actively dislike. Garage is one of them (won’t correct autocorrect).

Quite how / why he gets so much airtime / is allowed to sow so much hatred is beyond me.

Anyway, I thought he’d got himself a German passport and was offski to live in Europe…

Old thespian gets precious media coverage as there is nothing else going on. You’ll be telling me next that bowing to significant and widespread pressure from the public Nigel Farage is reentering politics…oh, wait

:lou_facepalm_2:

Stumbled across this

I’m sure some won’t be happy

Raises an interesting philosophical point …

Is it a fist in the face of democracy because we’ve had a vote and that albeit tiny majority voted one way… or is it democracy because many folks may have changed their minds (both ways) and it would be democratic to give them a voice now that the impact is becoming a little (not completely) clearer

I am sure some might say, well we waited 40 years so we should do so again, but most sensible folks would welcome a learning from the past, not a repeat of its mistakes…

My only problem with it is… that we end up in a situation of instability as folks demand another vote if things don’t go well… as this time around the global economic shit created the mess we are in and the Tory austerity has driven many below the poverty threshold… so the EU was in for a kicking despite it not being the responsible party… so any vote (as should the first) have stated that this is binding for say 25 years whatever the impact… as we know the last vote was only advisory and politicians did not need to go down the Brexit route… but by some miracle for the first time ever they seemed to listen to 17mil… I suspect because their research will show that 17mil contains most of those general election swingers that dictate who our government shall be… and Boris et al did the. Ether homework as they stand more to gain…

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A new referendum has 2 problems. 1) opinions have polarised and become stronger on both sides. It could fracture society even more.
2) the same idiots will be making the same spin does anyone believe information dissemination will not come from the think tanks and lobby groups that got us into the mess in the first place.
You talk about rational people which is fine, but are Daily Mail & Sun readers or Grannies in Benidorm rational? hell after the forum, are Saints fans even rational?

Uhm… well we cant have it both ways DP… either ‘the people’ are irrational, in which case why the fuck were they given a vote in the first place… or they are rational and will be able to differentiate between the spin and BS provided by both sides ? :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

I think most are rational, but as we have seen on here, many Like me can be reactionary… its part of being passionate about something… so the key is often to let folks have their shout and then reflect on the reality… which is in some ways what has happened imho… there will be some on both sides who have changed their minds, but I would hazard a guess the result would be different a second time around… or at least, a decision made when all those voting Brexit could at least do so knowing the truth about the self interest of those advocating they do so…I think there are probably 13-14mil people who would vote Brexit whatever… mostly because some wont give a shit about recession as it wont impact on them, some who are just stuck in an archaic concept of sovereignty (mho), and some who sadly don’t understand the impact that would have on them… I think there are probably a similar number who are pro EU for similar good and bad (self interested) reasons… so imho, i think there are around 5-6 million who potentially change their mind either way… depending on the underlying socio-economic climate (as they do in general elections)… I suspect had this referendum been offered by Blair in '97 and he had openly supported it, we would have seen a bigger majority for Remain… the fact that Blair turned out as he did is irrelevant, but its more illustrative of how Farage, Boris et read the climate much better than Cameron and knew when to strike…

At least it’s not coming from taxpayer money. Sounds like he’s spending 1m on polling. So that’s a cool million just to drum up enough people to say that they want to remain. You can’t imagine him pushing out that dosh if he thinks he’s spending a mil to get a negative result.

Could just be he’s another affluent mofo that doesn’t realise why people voted the way they did.

Whatevs. His million is not going to buy a 33m+ poll, and even if it did, it would have no official status.

The people who post on here are rational (well, apart from…)
Many who post on fiverweb?
Twitter?

The REMAINERS are more VOCAL on Social Media. Brexiteers are the evil enemy for many eloquent posters.

But the General Public? Hmmmmm.

I would have voted leave IF I had a vote. It was not because of immigration, it was because I disagreed with the EU forcing a “social democratic” view of law and “rights” on a Nation that preferred to choose between Left or Right Wing Centrist policies every 4/5 years.
The arrogance of Junker & Tusk re-affirmed my opinion Cameron TRIED to get small concessions to "The Programme. They did not listen then and do not listen to Austria, Hungary, Poland and others now.

The problem is that the debate is still based upon If Only’s. Not about the future vision. It is short termist and even IF a new referendum was announced, the only change is a better awareness of what?

More accurate speculation? Are there actually ANY clear FACTS as to what the economy will do when we do not have any deal yet?

Another referendum on speculative facts. Great.

And even IF an referendum were announced you lot would fight each other to the death about the context, the questions, the meaning.
Do you like the terms Yes No?
Do you want to leave Yes No?

Should the EU have fucking listened to our grievances? Fuck yes.
Look if there is the chance that OTHER Nations may yet pull out because nothing has changed…
But that’s me. I am a cynic. The two most deadly words in anybody’s life are “If Only”. They eat you up.
And I then don’t trust ANY Politicians. In fact I have learnt not to trust anyone I look after myself. Until I need someone to wipe my bum, even IF I have to live in a tent in Poland and beg for food.

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''affluent mofo" - ‘I dont do insults…’

‘dosn’t realise why people voted the way they did’ - a rather arrogant POV that presumes you do have knowledge of why each person voted the way they did… including those that are genuinely bigoted? but I forget we are not allowed to mention them as they did not really exist or have any influence on vote…

No one can be sure of what other people want and more importantly why

This decision was not influenced by the 30 mil that are sure of their stance for reasons good or bad, but by those who are influenced by the underlying socio-economic conditions… its the failure to acknowledge that and how this means the ‘voice of of people’ is never ‘set’ but will reflect those conditions that is rather naive and arrogant

Yes, because affluent mofo is an insult.

Not sure what your point is. Would you like another go? In Engilish?

Sadly its not my problem if you struggle with comprehension… Like I have suggested before for someone so well read, its such a shame you gain so little insight or understanding from what you read…

You seem happy to present such a hypocritical face… offer subtle yet obvious insults, yet then pretend its not so, just banter, light hearted etc… holier than though…

You also seem happy in your own arrogance - perhaps because you believe that blind faith in the a ‘traditional’ party rhetoric makes you superior to others, when it just highlights a naive and blinkered perspective on things.

If you chose to use such snide little insults ‘would you like another go, In English’ - don be so surprised if you get a little ‘stick’ in return.

You are good for comedy value if nothing else.