:brexit: Brexit - The Ramifications

More fool us for electing thick cunts… but the principle stands even if the electorate seem happy to continue to vote for arseholes… this being the ‘beauty’ of democracy - it delivers what people want, not what they need. Its like letting kids do the weekly shop and accepting they bring home a load of sweets, crisps and chocolate - ‘Its their will…’’

I’m not taking offence. The millions that go out to work for forty hours a week and still can’t make ends meet probably will.

I’m not guessing, by the way.

All this means that today the big issue is the number of people who live in working households who are in poverty. 57% of people in poverty are children or working-age adults living in a household where someone is in paid work; up from 35% in 1994-95.[1] This means that poverty is far more sensitive to the plight of low-earning working households than used to be the case. In-work poverty has become one of the most important challenges we face.

…and again, please let us know how the post Brexit economy is going help elevate the living standards of those poorest in our society? I am not being sarcastic when I ask about which industries will be resurrected to help create the wealth NOT to simply help those in poverty but actually get them OUT of it and provide opportunity?

Quite a day for you, AG.

What would you suggest in democracy’s place?

An unelected executive in which the major decisions are made in Berlin?

Oh :smiley:

… Godwin’s Law. :lou_facepalm_2:

How many times do you need to be given an answer before it sinks in?

There is a direct relationship between the scarcity of a commodity and the price people are willing to pay for it.

Post-Brexit, there is going to be a relative scarcity of unskilled labour, especially those willing to work for wages that don’t allow you to survive in Britain?

What happens next?

Do the business owners of this country:-

  1. Say “we can’t get the staff. We’d better close down everything in the UK”.
  2. Get the staff to keep their businesses going, even if the margins suffer.

?

I’m talking about today, Jurgen :smiley:

How many times do you need to be given an explanation before it sinks in?

The fact that many unskilled may find work when there is NOT a lack of unskilled labour… is not going to drive our economy… it will help the few willing to do those back breaking jobs such as fruit picking or the 8pm-6am Macdonalds shift earn a few quid, which is a start for some and good on them, but this is not going to create the fair and egalitarian society you believe nor will it create the economic wealth that will improve our services and infrastructure… Where is this coming from when our service industry shrinks? Where is our ‘Wirtshaftswunder’’ going to come from to reignite our manufacturing? You have used the positive balance of trade as a what me should expect as that is what we used to have 50 years ago before the common market, so enlighten me and explain how this will work… stop ignoring the issue… you presented this in amongst your facts…

For multinational companies, probably option 1.

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Why is there no lack of unskilled labour, AG?

Come on. Let’s work it through.

There is no lack of unskilled labour at present because of the Freedom of Movement clause embedded in the Single Market. There are also vast numbers of people living in economies where wages are several times lower.

They have decided, that rather than working at home for a pittance doing a professional wage, they’d ship over here, earn some real money by doing unskilled work in Britain, and learn English at the same time.

In their place, I would do exactly the same.

After Brexit, the movement of unskilled labour from EU countries will end. This will mean that we will have less unskilled labour, and that employers will need to fight for employees in a contracted labour market.

I think you need to add something to your “British workers won’t do the work” point.

If you say “British workers won’t do the work for the money on offer”, it wouldn’t be a slur, and it would be more accurate.

Fine. There are far too many of them anyway, and we don’t own enough of them. Whatever apparatus they take out of the country, the vast majority of their skilled staff will be here. In other words, excellent people to start new ventures with.

That’s the best you can come up with? If loads of jobs go, it doesn’t matter, as the taxes paid will be replaced by skilled people replacing these companies with new companies, immediately, to pick up the strain.

Seriously? That’s your argument?

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The numbers game… we will indeed have less unskilled from abroad, but w have more than enough unskilled in fact a surplus of British unskilled to fill that hole… but many may well stay unfulfilled… teh Farmers up in Fife pay around £8-10 an hour + piece base bonuses, because many of teh fruit and salads stuff is time sensitive harvest… there are plenty of out of work in fife who will not do this work even if it was paying £20 an hour… its why the Eastern Europeans came in the first place… its not about the money on offer but about the type of work.

Next Pizza Express and Costa et al will just put prices up… inflation goes up and thus value of extra 10% is nothing… The only way that wage increase is meaning full is if inflation stays low due to economic growth and productivity… putting 10% on these low paid jobs does help this for a short time until inflation fucks it up, and Its good for those folks - but it will have little impact on a post Brexit economy

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I have to agree with Cherts… your argument is a pipe dream Pap… and fairy story of wished for opportunity… if it were so easy to start new companies or reinvigorate our manufacturing to drive wealth and growth, why the fuck have we not done it… and no, the EU does not restrict such entrepreneurial spirit… in fact you can get EU grants for it

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Unless you think that people in work are poorer than those without work then your point makes no sense to me.

I said and stand by the statement that when I think of the poorest in society I don’t think of those in work.

I said no offence because I didn’t want you to appear like you’d forgotten about those that don’t or can’t work.

You explaining that people in work are poor too doesn’t change my point and neither does it address how Brexit will positively impact those that won’t get the bounce in wages you’re guessing will happen.

I believe (guessing) that those that don’t work are exposed to all of the Brexit risk and will see little of the Brexit bounce that some guess might happen - especially if the Brexit benefit you believe will be visited upon our nation is wage inflation.

No wage. No benefit.

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I think you’re on a loser if you’re talking about tax take, Cherts. Most of the multinationals making bank here aren’t paying the full whack into the UK tax system. Amazon famously touts itself as a “delivery business” in the UK, while benefiting from a low tax regime in Luxembourg.

Plenty of other big firms doing the same.

We’re far better off having a number of British firms than one or two multinationals. First, our eggs will not all be in one basket. Second, we won’t have companies that are too powerful to ignore, and end up getting state handouts while the poor suffer cut after cut. Finally, and it may have slipped your attention, but every British marque of manufacturing note has been bought by foreign firms.

Probably about time we addressed that. The firms can move out. We’d be mad not to invest in the skill left behind.

Forgive me for repetition, because I think I’ve done this one before, but the one thing that politicians will never understand about the don’t work underclass is that many of them won’t suddenly get spirited back to work because benefits are slashed so much.

The reality is that a lot of people that don’t work do work. They just don’t do anything you can declare to the taxman. Furthermore, those that are short of money but aren’t professional criminals will often supplement their income with a bit of off the books activity that could be declared to the taxman, but why bother, especially with the mess after Universal Credit.

For those people, criminal or otherwise, all that happens when benefits are cut is that they do more of what they do. Anyone with one of those mindsets has free money from the government and more agency to earn than someone stacking shelves at TESCO for 40 hours a week.

I’m not saying they are a majority, but those kind of people were ten a penny on my old estate, because what’s the alternative? Starve? Tell the government and have your income fucked up for weeks? Leave the kids at home and do 40 hours a week which gives you a net benefit of next to nowt?

Needless to say, people that can’t work is an entirely different matter.

Oh OK, so net tax from Multinationals and income tax from employees is £0.

Phew, Brexit will be fine.

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This argument is predicated on some rather shaky ground.

First, the multinationals have to leave, and I’m really not sure that will happen. Is Jeff Bezos going to abandon a market of 70m? I think not. Successful businesses will adapt, and wantaways may get away, but not without flak, and not without attendant PR disasters.

Next, all those people that are left behind will do precisely nothing. Never generate any tax take again. Won’t seek other employment, and if money becomes an issue, they’ll presumably live in a cave somewhere. That is one likely scenario where none of them ever contribute to the British exchequer again. I would be fascinated to hear how you see it playing out.

Finally, we have to have a Prime Minister so fucking inept and incompetent that they don’t start ramping up domestic production, and I genuinely think she’ll be gone by then.

My old Company (before I left) employed 2000 people across the UK, most in London and Reading… part of a global workforce of 55000. over 50% of those are from EU countries and 95% of the revenue generated is from EU countries - a service based solution. 65% of these folk at least will be 40% tax payers… contributing to our coffers.

With no deal, there is a real danger they will move this European HQ to mainland EU as if tariffs are applied to work carried out in UK for EU countries by the EU, they wont stay here and as this may well may the services uncompetitive… they already have offices all over EU where the work could be done… will be simple moving the EU staff to these offices, do the work there and UK nationals will have to go to…

I get the impression that as these are high earners you probably think ‘fuck em’ but its these in the middle bracket that pay the majority of tax in the UK… and in many cases the most likely jobs to be sent back too EU…

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