Where have I insulted AG?
Appreciate that you don’t want to single anyone out, but I’m trading on facts.
It’s when folk have nowt comparable to offer in return that the insults start flying.
Look at your posts on the subject. Every single one of them is contemptuous of those that did not agree with your vote. At best, they’re simpletons that didn’t know what they voted for. At worst, they’re moustache -twirling racist villains.
For someone that insists that people weren’t given the full facts, you are very good at avoiding any yourself, preferring instead to get upset and start calling names.
We all know why this is.
Thatcher, of all people, nailed this in the 1980s - and you’re making me quote her.
I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left.
Do you have anything factual to add to this debate? All the evidence I’ve seen demonstrates that you ran out of political arguments back in 2016.
What do you have left now?
It’s madness.
The only good to have come from the Remain side of the argument is that I know exactly how not to campaign.
You don’t change opinions by calling people names. You just entrench them.
You have consistently offered no facts on the implications (which is after all the crux, if you acknowledge that principles are hardly ever a guide to practical outcomes), you repeatedly use a sneering and patronising tone - I suspect deliberately as you know it gets a bite… and the big 'independent school chip on your shoulder (as always a result of seeping generalisations and one or two bad experiences) is frequently referred to… and you say its never personal? (It may not be irony, but you do hypocrisy very well)
How you see yourself: Politically astute, well informed, passionate and principled
How you come across in your posts: Like a parody of the teenage socialist, A "Rik’’ from the Young ones with all the same angst and misplaced confidence that you and only you have seen the light.
(NB. That is a comment on how the posts come across - I don’t know you, so this may be your online character only…)
You may not have called me ‘names’ but you are more covert, instead intending snide insults such the independent school thing (which has fuck all to do with anything - and as I mentioned, I went to a state school)… you play games and don’t like it when someone stands up to you and points out you are being a twat - those that have no longer post here as they tend to realise they have more important things to do in their lives than put up with such sneering tones - A healthy does of self-awareness would not go amiss…
I am going ‘flounce’ away as you cant be reasoned with… ‘facts’ lol - Where are the facts that show how much better we will be… We have been waiting since 2016…
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Got it - “Public school”
Contemptible, thick, public school racist
I now feel complete
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Very topical
Just playing the post, I find much to disagree with.
There are plenty of facts in my recent post. I suspect they are actually uncomfortable truths for most Remainers reading them.
It is a fact that since its inception, the body now known as the European Union has taken over the following areas of policy.
- Coal
- Steel
- Agriculture
- Fish
- Border control
- Monetary supply in Eurozone countries.
It is also a fact that the EU plans to have its own Army, by 2025.
It is also a fact that the Hellenic Fire Service said they were under-prepared for forest fires, two years ago, and it is also a fact that the Greek debt package, decided by the Troika, two thirds of which was the ECB and the EU itself, has plunged Greek public services into financial chaos.
I really don’t have to do character assassination here, @Map-Of-Tasmania. I get to trade on facts, you are presenting fantasy and insult in return. This is a football site, so plenty of people are well aware of playing the man, not the ball. I’m also fairly certain that you think you’re having a good day on the pitch.
I’m no Ronaldo, me ol’ mucker, and I think the whole world that knows me knows that. I would however, say two things.
I’ve dealt with much harsher tackles elsewhere than I’ve gotten off this sequence of play; them lads did damage but failed to take me out of the game, especially because @saintbletch was on referee duty.
The other thing I’d say is absolutely true. I’ve never wound you up. The only person that can wind anyone up is themselves, and I’ll happily 'fess to being an auto-winder.
You’re free to react in anyway you choose, but personally, I look back on some of my own posts that I wrote while wound up and see the vain man, not the honest one.
An honest man speaks the truth, though it may give offence; a vain man, in order that it may.
Don’t let it happen to you.
See this is interesting, but perhaps not for the reasons you intended… lest start with the facts that you seem to suggest are the pivotal cornerstones of your arguments
’ It is a fact that since its inception, the body now known as the European Union has taken over the following areas of policy.
- Coal
- Steel
- Agriculture
- Fish
- Border control
- Monetary supply in Eurozone countries.
It is also a fact that the EU plans to have its own Army, by 2025.
Very true… but how does this represent any argument? This is the purpose of the UNION, its called UNION for a reason after all. Now whether you like that or not is driven by your ideology… whether you believe that we will be better off outside or inside such a union is dependent upon FACTS and these are currently not known - and you have present none - and as we know, during the pre referendum debate the economists and experts were divided, when SPECULATING but most were on the side of staying in… and even those who suggested out, did so under the conditions of a decent deal… but as you will recall such talk was dismissed by Gove with his ‘‘we have had enough of experts’’ - there’s a FACT for ya
It is also a fact that the Hellenic Fire Service said they were under-prepared for forest fires, two years ago, and it is also a fact that the Greek debt package, decided by the Troika, two thirds of which was the ECB and the EU itself, has plunged Greek public services into financial chaos.
er… it may well be a fact that the Hellenic fire service was under prepared, but its speculation to link this directly to the EU membership… given the global financial crisis of 2006, how are you convinced that Greek situation would be in anyway better had they never been part of the EU?
I
really don’t have to do character assassination here, @Areola-Grandee. I get to trade on facts, you are presenting fantasy and insult in return. This is a football site, so plenty of people are well aware of playing the man, not the ball. I’m also fairly certain that you think you’re having a good day on the pitch.
You see this is where I lose my patience and to be honest respect - because you now play the victim card, yet ignore your bating and little snide comments as if they are just run of the mill banter - like all these things context is key.
As to the rest… the classic tactic of changing to ‘nice’ gold ole jolly Pap - is fine, but it will be transparent to most.
I make no apologies for being ‘wound up’ by this whole debate. It angers me. It actually makes me fucking rage that this country ha followed the exact path that those cunts like Boris, Gove and Rees-Moog, set out to, whether for power or financial gain, matters not, but they don’t give a fuck about the ‘people’ or their voice…and were clever enough to see the political climate could be affected to their advantage - especially with help of the right wing media. Wound up, yeah I’m wound up because this is going to get a whole lot fucking worse for a lot of people… I just really wish there was any chance of being proven wrong…
As an aside… does anyone else also think this ‘playing the post’ v man is a load of shit? You either stand by what you post, after all its was one believes in surely, or if its a made up wind up position then it matters not anyway as you would be being a wind up cunt and deserve both barrels. If someone thinks I am a cunt for what I believe and post, fair enough, we are unlikely to get on in real life if we are so diametrically opposed, especially on something as divisive and critical as this issue…
And it’s looking shittier and shittier by the day
Barnier rules out key UK customs proposal
I’m still having trouble believing that Brexit is going to end well for the UK.
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You haven’t listened to a word @pap has said, have you?
We’ll be free to be ruled by other people, that by ignoring Parliament and the people, just like the last lot, will make us eternally happier and richer in spirit, so ignore the financial hit, that’s a very shallow way of looking at it.
Take @Fatso advice and stock up(kind of trial run for the real event a decade or two later) and if you have savings change them into another currency(you’ll make maybe 30% in a year or less).
We’re going full blown deregulated Americana and it’s going to be hideous.
Shame really, planned properly in advance with just a small amount of logic thrown in and it could’ve worked out ok.
Oh well, reap what you sow and all that. The whole world’s collapsing and this shower of shit playing government are making us market leaders.
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I’d like to congratulate you on your response above - given that you feel you were provoked, it showed some restraint.
Just to put both sides, @pap has made it clear that he believes that he is posting facts and not on a wind-up.
Everyone reading will make up their mind if there is blame and if so where the blame lies, but to be honest it’s still all a bit personal to you and @pap to have a place in this thread.
I think part of the problem with Brexit is that the binary choice that we each voted on for our own personal reasons is now being cast by others in a different light as broad generalistaions; Brexiteers are racists, Remainers are Quislings.
Now, personally, I don’t have a problem with those sort of broad classifications - as unhelpful as they are, because I think we are each smart enough to realise those characteristics don’t apply to ourselves and ignore them.
The issue that seems to trip us up on this thread is when one poster engages another and lays those broad classifications at their door such that they become a specific accusation.
Now, I have to ask myself why we are getting personal at all?
Perhaps we think it’s banter?
Perhaps we’ve stored up some animosity from what others have previously said about us?
Perhaps we’ve lost the argument and have to resort to a direct and negative response.
I think for everybody’s sake, if we start to attribute words, thoughts, deeds or names specifically to someone else on this thread, we should stop and think twice.
A reminder that if you see a post that you don’t think belongs here you can issue a retort to tell the author of the post what you think.
Or, you can flag it.
Flagging allows you to bring the post to the mods attention - or you can personally bring the post to the authors attention by seleting to PM the author about the post (The I want to talk to this person directly… option).
Sorry SoS, but this is the sort of general Brexit banter that is made specific by laying it at @pap’s door.
I’m sure you’re aiming for banter, and I’m also sure that @pap doesn’t need me to fight his battles for him, but I’m not sure what you expect @pap to do in response. He’s in a corner there, and I’m sure we all know that nobody puts pap in the corner.
Second to last paragraph allows him to lay the fuck up all on the tories.
That was supposed to be the balance.
…as I said I thought you were aiming for banter, and please see my post as suggested behaviour around a very sensitive topic.
You, or the wider membership, can tell me to fuck off and that you/they want no-holds-barred discussions and I’m sure @pap will be frustrated/mortified at my interference.
It’s just that I’ve seen a couple of members ‘flounce’ away from the thread following discussions in the last couple of days which tells me we’re not getting the tone right on this thread specifically.
Fair enough on the bit you highlighted, but the rest including “it could’ve worked”, i feel is a reasonable guess(using my natural positivity) for an event that we can only guess at.
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Don’t worry, it’s all a ‘characrer’. He’s actually an arch remainer
It would be a shame if I was.
I’d be very unhappy about the inevitable no deal Brexit which is rushing up before us.
As it is, I’m just pissed off we spent two years having our chain yanked by the EU, and that Cameron forbade the Civil Service from planning for a Leave outcome.
Even so, this will all be done and dusted in a year. Cliff Edge Brexit will turn out to be another load of old bollocks. I’d have spent enough time telling you so.
I suppose, enjoy the fun while it lasts. *
* I hope this has been fun for you. I really don’t see what else has been achieved.
It is not Brexit that has beaten us
It is not the EU that has beaten us
We have beaten ourselves
All the EU have done is sat back and watch us in-fight to the point of destruction of our negotiating position. I believe we could have negotiated a good deal, but only had everyone been pulling in the same direction. Our problem is not that our politicians have been trying to influence any deal, they have been trying to derail it completely. For every Jacob Rees Mogg out there demanding hard Brexit, you have an Anna Soubrey doing everything in her power to stop Brexit altogether. This is happening of both sides of the house.
As such we will end up with a half arsed compromise which everyone will ultimately have to share some portion of blame for, be they MPs, Lords, business and the electorate
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