Which is why he got an up vote it’s from me on Israel thread
But if you’re dipping pop tarts in caviar with a pedigree chum, it’s gone well.
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That is the point. If we need plumbers cos ours are feckless wasters, we say in you come. If we need a few more nurses, come on down. Germany need a couple of English speaking saints fans, you are in luck.
AG, you are just pissed cos you think the price of campag and Castelli is going up.
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And the cunt down voted me on the Israel thread…cunt!
Call the second referendum NOW! 
Nah, Shimano man CB. It won’t resonate with many but I have never had any real sense of nationalism - maybe it’s my evolutionary biology background in that humans have always migrated and settled nearer to resources - boarders and fences put up to keep others out and protect what you found first is what it’s all about… the irony is that the UK maybe more than most others has such a legacy of wealthy landowners who were mostly gifted half a county back in 13whatever usually for killing a load of foreigners or plotters - a system of haves and have nots that influences our perception of sovereignty… with the irony being that many of those who voted to for ‘better times’ post Brexit are many of our poorest, yet probably the most flag waving and system supporting…
… and in real geological time it all means shit - even in a few 100 years things will have cha ged again beyond what we would recognise and yet so many remain obsessed more with who and whom makes governs over their difficult and shitty lives as opposed to their shitty lives… the fact so many of our poorest in society still vote for Right wing parties sums it up better than most.
The days of a wonderful egalitarian society free from the clutches of global capitalism are really no longer an option… and so it should be more about how we can make it a little bit fairer. That is only possible if we are economically stronger which means concessions to the greedy and often corrupt - with the hope that the wealth can be at least distributed to some extent… if we are fucked economically or good and services are beyond the means of many, not sure how that will deliver what most sensible folk want to see.
We have had the wage debate and reached an impasse as I won’t accept that supply and demand is the ONLY influence on that. It’s nit as has been seen by many examples - it’s the illegal exploitation of workers that is the bigger threat. That is not an immigration issue but one of enforcement of existing legislation.
Yes I am sure those with skills can move about, but the point of freedom is that you can move and LEARN those skills - take opportunities that may not be available to you locally-we so it all the time on a national scale… folks love for work and training, same principles… add to that the symbolism and freedoms mentioned many times and how that IS more important than many give credit to, and you have my reasons…
… thankfully I already purchased my Cipolini NK1K handmade carbon frame last year so no worries on that front 
Bit of an extreme reaction from where I am sitting, @krg_ . The Torygraph is an imperfect organ, tainted to be sure, but not with the muck you’ve thrown at it. Peter Oborne ditched them because they refused to properly investigate one of their major sponsors. That is pretty shit.
But this?
This is straight out of the Breitbart/Infowars/4Chan playbook, it’s the most pathetically thinly-veiled Anti-Semitism.
Don’t follow, I’m afraid. The Telegraph wouldn’t lean my way, by they don’t lean as far to the right as that.
They were reporting on a Hungarian businessman who happened to be ploughing £400K into a campaign fund so it could fight a campaign that ended two years ago. The news cycles are often peppered with the idea that Russia is meddling in foreign political processes.
How is a national newspaper reporting about a foreign billionaire bunging substantial funds into our political process _not _news, and actually _“the most pathetically thinly-veiled Anti-Semitism”. _
How’d you get from bTripz’ post to yours?
So the lothario Henry Bolton has been given his P45 by UKIP. Time for a triumphant return for Field-Marshall Professor Sir Paul Nuttall after scoring two for Man United this evening i say.
I posted this on Facebook first, but I do enjoy you hope these sloppy seconds, Sotonians.
I recently contested the idea that the poor will be the real losers of Brexit. Spoiler warning; they’ll do alright.
Tonight, I’d like us all to spare a thought for the real losers of Brexit.
Spare a thought for the business owner, who may soon have to pay wages that reflect the cost of living, or listen to workers’ concerns when they have them.
Spare a thought for the multinationals. They’ll no longer benefit from EU money to move profitable businesses into cheaper parts of the Union, or outside of it entirely, as Ford did when the EU loaned them 80m to move their Southampton-based business to Turkey. They might not even to be able to place their HQ in the most lenient regimes in the EU, then claim the multi-billion retail empire they’ve got in the UK is just “delivery business” (a la Amazon).
Spare a thought for the buy-to-let landlords, who will see a dip in demand, may have to improve their homes to a habitable standard in order to attract tenants, or in a worst-case scenario, even have to sell them and put extra supply in the housing market. The extra supply may even drive houses down to a point where young people can afford to buy them, and then where would buy-to-let landlords be?
Spare a thought for the bankers, who may eventually see capital controls introduced, and may not be as able to move money to exotic locations with relaxed tax and governance structures. Spare a thought for their tax dodging customers.
Spare a thought for United Utilities, the impoverished energy corporation, that will no longer be getting paid out of the Common Agricultural Policy budget “not to farm”.
Spare a thought for Tony Blair, Alistair Campbell and Chuka Umunna, who are all going to look wronger they’ve ever been, at a point where all three thought it couldn’t get any worse.
Spare a thought for the real losers of Brexit.
Quite a few “mays” in there Pap. I call you out on speculation rather than hard fact.
Tbf, the Remain argument has lots of the same, just worded differently.
And for the record, Cobs, there are a shitload of facts in there too.
Take a walk down Wide Lane for the proof.
Yeah, but isn’t it nearly the end game of Britain having had influence globally to being a snivelling little wreck on the north west coast of Europe. Ffs we controlled the largest empire ever and as a result of our greed and avarice other countries rose and threw off the shackles of empire - especially where we tried to influence the near and far east. The US A came a cropper too.
We’ve got a character flaw where we fuck up our global influence, join an entity that could restore it (but we fuck up while in it by reusing to fully involve ourselves) and then think other countries want or need if we leave the EU. What the fuck do we really have to offer the world these days that other countries can get elsewhere. No really, I’m interested.
Seriously, read your history on the rise and fall of nations, and concentrate on our declining influence globally. Start with us in India with the East India Co and work your way back to today, taking in the shenanigans of the USA and USSR in the middle east. Actually, go back even further to how we fuck up everything - try the middle ages and how we got rich off the crusades at the expense of others.
Brexit is interlinked to historical and ongoing politics. I hope I’ll be able to read this in 20 years and say I was wrong and Brexit has delivered prosperity to Britain and we have harmonious political relations globally…
Where is Wide Lane btw?
Can we substitute the word exploitation for influence?
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I have absolutely no problem with that @goatboy - was only trying to be polite - hell I only used x3 fucks and x1 Ffs
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Yeah, but your tirade of unsubstantiated negativity is par for the course, @cobham-saint . Believe me when I say that I’ve read and dealt with scores of similar “holes”.
You speak about the loss of influence. Whose influence? Yours?
You lost the power to vote on any agricultural or fishing matters in the 1970s. Your vote lost the power to have a meaningful say in immigration, or the person that leads your effective political unit, in the 1990s. If we’d joined the Euro, as Tony and many of his cronies wanted, your vote would no longer be able to influence monetary issues.
Personally, I’d say that the real loss of our power happened after each of the World Wars. The Empire was on paper, bigger than it had ever been after the Paris Peace conference of 1918/19, but as hindsight would prove, very brittle. We lost our position as pre-eminent world power after the events of the Second.
Leaving the EU is going to put more power in the hands of voters, and less in the hands of those that have given away so much.
Spare a thought for those that are a little selective on how they define and use ‘facts’…
Pap you are like an old Chicken Farmer who back in the 70s was told by the Farmers collective that Foxes kill chickens.
You present all of your ‘facts’ above as dead chickens and therefore believe that it’s the evil fox that is the culprit because that is what you believe.
unfortunately, you will give no time to those that might suggest that your chickens are dying of old age, or disease as you have never considered a vet might help…
you always come across as a 1970s angry Student shouting socialist worker rhetoric- without ever considering it might be a tad limited in its evaluation of a situation
Let’s adress a few of your ‘dead chickens’ - the business owner having to pay a wage that reflects the cost of living… well if this country had the will and an electorate that voted for a much higher minimum wage it could do so, it is not the EU that tells us what our wage structure should be. I don’t want to go back over supply and demand as you will not accept it’s not the only cause of wage deflation - a dead chicken too… spare a thought though for the POTENTIAL increase in unemployment that may occurs post Brexit as our markets shrink… and the impact that has on ‘supply and demand’
(notice I say potential and may - as opposed to using your ‘fox’)
in terms of representation, well my EU colleagues have workers councils, something enshrined in their local legislation - something we do not have and would struggle to have. The fact our Unions are week and ineffective is because they were fucked by Thatcher - yet they are not without blame having opposed technical evolution and defended poor practices throughout the 70s and 80s… again nothing to do with EU, but local politics. Indeed my EU collegaues have it much better, less hours and better protection as fully signed up - so another non fox related chicken death
multinationals will go where they can get the best deal and don’t give a fuck about it. It’s the price we pay for looking to attract jobs. The Ford example is cited, yet there will be others in both directions. We fuck too much with the system and we will lose those we do have to other markets and the jobs that go with them… but good riddance hey except for the poor cunts who loose their jobs…
Landlords? Well why is there much stricter legislation in Germany on the minimum letting standards in most EU countries? Because it’s in local control not EU. You can controll standards irrespective of supply and demand it’s just we don’t have the legislation in place like our EU neighbours or chose not to enforce it… as for wishing for market falls, maybe a good thing over time, but having millions in negative equity sure fucks with the economy and those effected most? The less well off who are already stretched on mortgage repayments. It’s never as simple as seeing a dead chicken and assuming it’s all the big bad fox
it’s a common theme amongst Brexiteers. Making huge assumptions based on ideology and trying to convince folks it’s fact - be it 365mil a week for the NHS, or the ‘fact’ that the great unknowns economic future will be good for the poorest in society, forgetting that the more well off may just fuck off to France taking their skills, jobs and tax with them.
this country has lot of problems - a lot of dead chickens and as has always been acknowledged some of those are down to the fox… but many are down to our own making and may get worse once outside of the EU.
But just keep killing foxes Pap and see your chickens live forever…
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This should start with “Once upon a time”. It’s pure fantasy.
Do honestly believe house prices and availability will change once we leave. You have completely lost the plot if you do. Buy to let slum landlords will continue to dominate the housing market.
Every paragraph is a tirade of unsubstantiated negativity.
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