Freedom of movement for free trade? The leave campaign couldn’t agree to that, its an anathema to leave so its totally against their ideology, it wouldn’t happen. A concession could be free trade and freedom of movement between certain Countries and a visa scheme for others so numbers can be counted and then possibly controlled if need be.
So which countries would be ‘travelling second class’? odds on it would be those with ‘darker skins’, Eastern Europeans yeah? uhm… that’s not a concession Berry, that’s discrimination, are you areally advocating this as a solution?..
Sadly, Flahute, it seems a rather sinister echo of the past…ironically, I saw one session where Brexit campaigners wheeled out some old WW2 Vets who mumbled the same thing… obviously forgetting the rights and freedoms they themselves faught for…
Best story I have heard on a Leave voter so far: A man in Manchester who ran his own business, selling English souvenirs. He voted Leave. The question was put to him: as an SME business owner, you are very unusual voting Leave. Why was that?
“I dont have any connection to Europe. I sell to people in England and the EU does not impact me. There are too many immigrants here so thats why I want to Leave”. The TV company interviewing him had done some research and found that his main product supplier for most of the souvenirs was called Great Britain Souvenirs s.a.r.l. When this was put to the business owner, he said, “Its called Great Britain xyz, so its British, right?”. No, its a Luxembourg based supplier, set up and owned by a huge French company. . “Oh, I had no idea”, he said, with a look of complete shock.
If ever there was a case for a Court to put a business into immediate liquidation, in the public interest…
The most effective propagandists of the “European ideal” have not been the far right, but an insufferably patrician class for whom metropolitan London is the United Kingdom. Its leading members see themselves as liberal, enlightened, cultivated tribunes of the 21st century zeitgeist, even “cool”. What they really are is a bourgeoisie with insatiable consumerist tastes and ancient instincts of their own superiority. In their house paper, the Guardian, they have gloated, day after day, at those who would even consider the EU profoundly undemocratic, a source of social injustice and a virulent extremism known as “neoliberalism”.
The aim of this extremism is to install a permanent, capitalist theocracy that ensures a two-thirds society, with the majority divided and indebted, managed by a corporate class, and a permanent working poor. In Britain today, 63 per cent of poor children grow up in families where one member is working. For them, the trap has closed. More than 600,000 residents of Britain’s second city, Greater Manchester, are, reports a study, “experiencing the effects of extreme poverty” and 1.6 million are slipping into penury.
Yep. Can’t disagree with any of that. I expect a lot of Leave voters would feel betrayed, CB.
I heard the Leave campaigners and those that appeared to speak for the official Leave campaign making all sorts of promises that I, humbly, assumed they could not deliver upon.
At best I assumed these people believed these things, and I just thought they were naive to think that they would have anything to negotiate with to force the EU to open its markets whilst keeping borders closed.
At worst, I assumed these people were simply saying whatever they thought would get us to vote Leave and deliver a Brexit result.
But, hold on a minute, we knew all this.
During the campaign, countless experts told us…oh, bugger, I see what has happened here.
Yeah London can go do one. It only generates 30% of the tax take. Economic turmoil and political uncertainty is the way to help the poorer in society (of which there are plenty in London too). Redundancies are happening right now.
…and I think that some Remainers, when placing their X, would have closed their eyes, repeated an ancient incantation, and hoped their vote would invoke the four crowned princes of Hell.
But what people hoped would be the outcome of the vote doesn’t matter, because it’s not what was being asked.
Remain or Leave.
What followed wasn’t specified.
And, to be clear, you’re still not sure that it wasn’t made clear that a condition of entry to the single market was free movement of people?
I agree, though, Leavers will almost certainly feel betrayed.
And rightfully so. They were lied to. Probably the first time ever a politician has misled us. Good job it was an important issue.
If I was being cynical I would say the companies are taking advantage of the Brexit vote to do something they were going to do anyway. Don’t redundacies have to be properly audited and each role given a weighting etc. etc. etc. if not then the company is open to being taken to court.
Don’t forget nothing has actually changed yet , Article 50 hasn’t been invoked, we are still a trading member of the EU!!
Yeah London can go do one. It only generates 30% of the tax take.
So it should naturally direct 100% of British thinking, right?
Economic turmoil and political uncertainty is the way to help the poorer in society (of which there are plenty in London too). Redundancies are happening right now.
London’s an easier place to find work than anywhere else in the country.
Economic turmoil and political uncertainty is the way to help the poorer in society (of which there are plenty in London too). Redundancies are happening right now.
London’s an easier place to find work than anywhere else in the country.
Quite a few MPs looking for work at the moment.
Seriously bud, I respect your dedication to principles and your integrity but on any level do you conceede that this hasn’t gone quite as smoothly as Leave would have liked?
As eloquently said above, times of political and economic uncertainty hit the poorest and most vulnerable the hardest. that isn’t about to change any time soon. Bizzarely the person copping the brunt of the shitstorm seems to be Corbyn.
Try telling that to the major businesses who have immediately stopped spending or are planning to move business to Europe. Many major transactions take some years from conception to fruition.
Certainly plans for redundancies are happening. Example - JP Morgan in Bournemouth has put about 2,000 people on notice that their job are likely to be relocated to the EU. Some will go, some won’t and may lose their jobs over it. Either way, Bournemouths biggest employer is planning to reduce its status in the town. Bankers will have more flexibility to move, but there will be numerous admin and lower paid roles that will go.
Closer to home, i’ve had two Clients put a moritorium on immediate spending since Brexit. This stretches my financial planning and means i have to consider a couple of roles in my business. No immediate redundancies, but if i can’t encourage my Clients to trade with us, then i’m got to seriously consider these 2 jobs in November. Even if they do trade, I suspect the terms of business will be more onerous and less profitable than they might have been.
Replicate this around the country and the lack of certainty, financial jitters, political turmoil and potentially damaging trade deals potentially point to a tough mid to long term future.
Economic turmoil and political uncertainty is the way to help the poorer in society (of which there are plenty in London too). Redundancies are happening right now.
London’s an easier place to find work than anywhere else in the country.
Quite a few MPs looking for work at the moment.
Seriously bud, I respect your dedication to principles and your integrity but on any level do you conceede that this hasn’t gone quite as smoothly as Leave would have liked?
Why would they be a concern to me?
Throughout the debate before the referendum, I constantly had people holding up Johnson, Gove et al as my political fellow travellers. Didn’t buy it then, wasn’t involved with Leave then and wasn’t moved by any of their rhetoric.
I don’t know what Leave would have liked, simply because I never bothered talking to them. Least of all do I know what Boris Johnson wants. I’m not even sure he’s Eurosceptic.
I know I am, though - and I know the reasons why.
As eloquently said above, times of political and economic uncertainty hit the poorest and most vulnerable the hardest. that isn’t about to change any time soon.
Bizzarely the person copping the brunt of the shitstorm seems to be Corbyn.
The Corbyn thing is pure opportunism. Even now, I wonder if the PLP will be brave enough to launch a leadership challenge. They know they’ll lose.
Desperate motherfuckers in it for themselves, on the eve of the Chilcot report.
Freedom of movement for free trade? The leave campaign couldn’t agree to that, its an anathema to leave so its totally against their ideology, it wouldn’t happen. A concession could be free trade and freedom of movement between certain Countries and a visa scheme for others so numbers can be counted and then possibly controlled if need be.
It may be that whoever is in Government to negotiate Brexit after Article 50 is invoked, will be able to secure this, but if likely, it will be a last minute offer from Brussels which will not include passporting - the ability for UK registered Banks and financial institutions to trade with the whole of the EU. This would be an 11th hour deal offered which the UK Govnt will be forced to sign - _“you get a few less poles, your corrupt bankers are no more and we get all your financial services, it’s what your people wanted. You can’t not sign it!” _Else the timeframe expires and we have no agreement to trade and no licence for financial trade with the EU, forcing banks to leave the UK for a bigger EU market and set up in Paris, Frankfurt and Amsterdam and flee London.
Moves are already afoot to force the Banks hands - Hollande is already advocating a move to veto the City of London as an EU clearing house. He and the EU in general are keen to supress any further anti EU sentiment and grabbing some financial security and offering a few tax breaks will be a great boost to his election prospects next year. It may well be an unpalatable thing to accept, but the City really does provide a large degree of the UK’s wealth and enforces the UK’s position on world trade and political stages. A weakened City is not good for the long term prosperity of the country as a whole.
Cutting our nose of to spite our face may well be an overused phrase in the years to come.
I’m as about as anti-City as they come but even I fully understand why Westminster will bend over to protect it now. If they lose the passporting then the exodus from London will be rapid and landscape changing and if anyone doesn’t understand the impact that will have on the UK economy then they really don’t have much of a clue about what’s at stake.
If anyone thinks the tories will trade The City for the end of free movement of people then they are nuts.
They may be forced to trade it though, a position they were never in until the Brexit vote. It will be a canny hand from Brussels to play and will provide a huge kick in the bollocks to any UK Government for decades to come.
Personally, I think if they were offered (an took) a deal that excluded passporting but gave access to the single market and still allowed free movement then the Outers should string them up from the lamp posts as the country would struggle to recover in my lifetime.
