Even the most ardent of the Remain have always known that we’d get access to it. It’s the terms of that access which is the issue.
The terms haven’t changed, we were never going to get access to the Single Market because Boris made it very clear that we wouldn’t agree to their terms.
The Leave camp is getting exactly what they voted for.
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Which bit, Shirty?
Because this was all understood before the referendum, wasn’t it?
This just sounds like the opening salvos in an negotiation. Ultimately we won’t get everything we wan, but then neither will the EU. They still have 300bn in exports to the UK to protect as well.
Maybe by us Bletchy, and most educated people too. But judging by the endless people interviewed on why they voted Leave, then no.
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What would be a change of terms would be if we accepted free movement for access, considering immigration was a major factor in many people’s decision making
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I doubt people realised about the free movement of people to have access to the single market - I’m not sure that was made clear tis all.
Freedom of movement for free trade?
The leave campaign couldn’t agree to that, its an anathema to leave so its totally against their ideology, it wouldn’t happen.
A concession could be free trade and freedom of movement between certain Countries and a visa scheme for others so numbers can be counted and then possibly controlled if need be.
Originally posted by @CB-Saint
What would be a change of terms would be if we accepted free movement for access, considering immigration was a major factor in many people’s decision making
Sorry, CB. I don’t follow.
The form I was given had two options - Remain in the EU or Leave the EU.
That was the question that was asked.
No terms have changed, because none was set out. Various politicians, who were in no position to guarantee anything, made promises. But that’s like me telling Toke that I won’t come in his mouth. I can’t be trusted.
We could leave the EU, gain access to the free market and accept the free movement of people and no terms would have broken or changed.
Brexiters would have got exactly what they voted for.
Originally posted by @Chertsey-Saint
Originally posted by @saintbletch
Originally posted by @Chertsey-Saint
Originally posted by @Flahute
If that turns out to be true , then I think another referendum is needed, and maybe this one can be vetoed on the basis that the terms have significantly changed…
…at least I fucking hope so.
Which bit, Shirty?
Because this was all understood before the referendum, wasn’t it?
I doubt people realised about the free movement of people to have access to the single market - I’m not sure that was made clear tis all.
Sorry, don’t mean to offend, but are you serious?
You’re not, and yes.
I think the a lot of the Brexiters will have voted with the pretence that we can pay to get access to the single market without having to deal with the free movement of people.
I think that’s a change of terms for the Brexiters and many wouldn’t have voted that way if they didn’t know.
It was made quite clear in advance that to access the Single Market we had to accept free movement - Boris dismissed that deal out of hand and voters loved it.
So they voted us out of the Single Market, much to the surprise of anyone who needs money to live.
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Technically you are correct. Leaving the EU does not neccessarily exclude us from the single market or the free movement that would come with it. However a large number of people voted on the basis of controlling immigration. If we maintain open borders, I suspect that a lot of leave voters will feel betrayed.
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The safety pin campaign. My cynical view?
Designed for people that believe they’re not racist, but don’t actually have any non-white friends to prove it.
Call me a bluff old traditionalist if you must, but I prefer having non-white friends and coming down like a ton of bricks on racism whenever I see it.
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Thought I’d just throw this into the mix from the independent website “fullfact.org” about immigration.
The trouble with the issue is most people carry their own pre-conceptions into an argument and whatever an impartial view says, if it flies in the face of those pre-conceived ideas…the facts are wrong. And so it was on the immigration issue…
I’m afraid usually it’s the people who shout the loudest in a campaign…that carry the day.
The likes of Boris and Nigel may have been shouting loudly to drown out the facts but the voters should be sharp enough to recognise a bullshitter when they hear one.
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It was a classic play to the masses. “We’re being swamped by outsiders, hell bent on destroying our way of life and we have no control over it, they’re stealing jobs/benefits from you”.
Claming the immigrant has alwatys been used to pacify the thick throughout our history. Look at the educational and employment demographic of many of the Out voters. No wonder it worked.
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Sorry not posted much.
I started to write a reply and thought better of it , clicked on the ‘latest’ button to see what else people were saying and was met with a pop up.
As I had started to write in the box it just said ’ are you sure? and gave me the options ‘Leave or Stay’
As I am a man of principle I voted stay each time, but that meant I couldn’t leave this page until I’d written something
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Originally posted by @Barry-Sanchez
Freedom of movement for free trade? The leave campaign couldn’t agree to that, its an anathema to leave so its totally against their ideology, it wouldn’t happen. A concession could be free trade and freedom of movement between certain Countries and a visa scheme for others so numbers can be counted and then possibly controlled if need be.
No chance. It’ll be all of the 27 or none with concessions over future members.
We may import plenty but our service sector, especially The City, built around access to the Single Market and there is no way any Westminster government will risk the primaricy of The City. It brings in far too much money,
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What is the world coming to? So we are now being asked to wear something to prove we are not racist? Frankly I think we would do better to use the safety pins for jabbing in the eye any racists we come across. That way THEY would be easily identified by people who want to avoid bigots. Although I appreciate that this could cause problems for those normal people who have lost an eye, but perhaps the NHS could provide them with an eye patch saying I Am Down With Foreigners out of their massive windfall after Brexit?
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And once they have lost an eye we could fit them with a hook as well.
Even the thickest people could then identify extremists - though the really thick would think they were just pirates…
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