:brexit: Brexit - The Ramifications

Originally posted by @pap

John Pilger nails it once again.

The most effective propagandists of the “European ideal” have not been the far right, but an insufferably patrician class for whom metropolitan London is the United Kingdom. Its leading members see themselves as liberal, enlightened, cultivated tribunes of the 21st century zeitgeist, even “cool”. What they really are is a bourgeoisie with insatiable consumerist tastes and ancient instincts of their own superiority. In their house paper, the Guardian, they have gloated, day after day, at those who would even consider the EU profoundly undemocratic, a source of social injustice and a virulent extremism known as “neoliberalism”.

The aim of this extremism is to install a permanent, capitalist theocracy that ensures a two-thirds society, with the majority divided and indebted, managed by a corporate class, and a permanent working poor. In Britain today, 63 per cent of poor children grow up in families where one member is working. For them, the trap has closed. More than 600,000 residents of Britain’s second city, Greater Manchester, are, reports a study, “experiencing the effects of extreme poverty” and 1.6 million are slipping into penury.

http://johnpilger.com/articles/why-the-british-said-no-to-europe

Sorry, The onlything Pilger ‘nails’ is demonstrating a complete lack of irony. It seems he has decided to vent his spleen against another invented stereotype - the London neoliberal- jeez is he for real? Trying to suggest the remain argument is all pseudointellectualism… Yet pontificating from his own homemade ivory tower - a combination of condecention and total patronising bollocks.

I have not met one remained who would not acknowledge the democratic challenge posed by the EU in its current state - but most have decided that this not a decision that could be left to such a principle - because whilst it may afford for like Pilger a level of smug satisfaction - most looked at real issues - he is completely disingenuous about the immigration issue - and forgets that our domestic challenges of poverty are results not of the EU, but of domestic policy and an electorate that is happy to stand by and vote for austerity as opposed to tax and spend.

I’m just surprised he did not slip in the old 'liberal elite’put down …

He has the fucking cheek to talk of propaganda … There has been more balanced acknowledgement of the shite spread by Both sides in here than in that heap of shit prose.

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Are you aware of John Pilger’s journalistic achievements, GA?

I think he deserves better than the “Ex-Trader treatment”.

Fuck, so did Ex-Trader :lou_sunglasses:

http://johnpilger.com/biography

Well he should do better then - you seriously feel this is an unbiased piece ?

The Ex-trader treatment? What let him insinuate I was not a worthy human being - was I meant to just agree?

I am still at a loss as to how I contributed to his departure - given his robust and oft aggressive argumentative tone I am sure he had been told to go fuck himself on more than obe occasion- whilst this may not be the place for such behaviour, I was not expecting language last used in the 1930s to make a point.

I just love the revisionism. I don’t want to see any poster leave, but he’s was an argumentative stubborn git like the rest of us - now he is a ‘victim’?

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yeah what is definition of “the Ex-Trader Treatment”? Is it to take a general criticism of an undefined section of populace, as a personal attack on yourself? I will be on the watch for that srs. Next time I hear someone saying some animals are dumb, i will be like U WOT MATE!!! U FKN STARTING!!!

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Originally posted by @areloa-grandee

Originally posted by @pap

Are you aware of John Pilger’s journalistic achievements, GA?

I think he deserves better than the “Ex-Trader treatment”.

Fuck, so did Ex-Trader :lou_sunglasses:

http://johnpilger.com/biography

Well he should do better then - you seriously feel this is an unbiased piece ?

There’s no such thing as an unbiased piece, so no, but neither does it matter.

The bloke you’re knocking has done work which exposed the horrors of the Vietnam War, the infitada and helped to secure legal victories for Thalidomide victims.

He is not unbiased. From the stuff I’ve seen him write, the fucker has totally got it in for those who abuse power, especially if there are human costs in the process.

The Ex-trader treatment? What let him insinuate I was not a worthy human being - was I meant to just agree?

I am still at a loss as to how I contributed to his departure - given his robust and oft aggressive argumentative tone I am sure he had been told to go fuck himself on more than obe occasion- whilst this may not be the place for such behaviour, I was not expecting language last used in the 1930s to make a point.

I just love the revisionism. I don’t want to see any poster leave, but he’s was an argumentative stubborn git like the rest of us - now he is a ‘victim’?

I think it’s always best to play the post rather than the poster, and I’m sure it wasn’t just you that contributed to his departure, but you pretty much claimed it after he was announced.

The preference here is always to play the ball, not the man. Not always possible for me personally, but it’s an aim.

Hand on heart, do you think you really engaged with that John Pilger article, or did your Remain brain just start looking for ways to tear it apart?

My Remain brain read it, digested it, and felt it was disingenuous at best - sorry but the guy could have saved orphans from a burning house - and kittens from drowning and that piece would still inflame simply because of its patronising tone. His previous work is not being questioned.

i did not claim The Extrader thing- but merely acknowledged my beef with him on the thread that pushed him over the edge

I don’t buy all the play the post not the man - because it’s a cop out - or an excuse to write shite and then wash your hands of it. I was always if the belief that by posting your opinion you are expressing what you think. The critique was not even of ExTrader himself by me - but if those that voted because if a narrow perspective on a single issue - Beasy ‘nails’ it above.

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Not good enough to satisfy my “play the ball” standards, sadly.

“Disingenuous at best” is vague at best. Why not home in on one point, and tell me why it is incorrect?

It’s already started.

There may be trouble ahead…

All part of the game - sabre rattling by Hollande who is trying to push France as the dominant EU power and trying to grasp some credibility in front of his home voters as a serious statesman.

I am poolside in Majorca - being all bourgeois - great cycling as well - fuck knows how to do that multi quote thingy - but there are several issues with it - may dig deeper after a few Sangrias this evening.

play the ball? Now you have confused me ball, man, post - all the same thing - say I post some racist shit - am I still worthy of just having my post criticised or would there be a collective attack on me the person for being a racist shit? (I would hope so) - whilst that is extreme, principle is the same, how can you challenge an opinion without it in effect criticising the person? Because I suggest that the expressed post is an expression of their belief and thus character. I would also suggest that Ex-trader describing me (to paraphrase) a cunt not worthy of respect might be considered playing the man not the ball?

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Despite asking around I have yet to meet face-to-face someone who actually confesses to voting for the recession that we have organised for ourselves.

As markets suffer and jobs are threatened, is anyone on here brave enough to admit that they perhaps hadn’t grasped the consequences of where they were scrawling their little cross?

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I’m the other way, in Birmingham everyone seems to vote LEAVE srs, and they love telling me bout it. One guy earlier was telling me bout how frustrating it is that he can’t go around saying what he really thinks about Immigrant Scum, because he would unfairly be branded “racist”. It’s PC gone mad!

the only person I even heard of vote REMAIN was partner of one of the secretarys. She was gonna vote LEAVE, he was gonna vote REMAIN, so they agreed to both not bother voting, cos they would just cancel each other out, but then, right, he went and done his REMAIN vote on the sly lol. Just the kind of Backhand Tactics we expect of Remainers!

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This is the thing with principles of democracy - ignores the implications of the decision.

i really want someone to explain to me how leaving the EU will ‘keep the Muslims out’ and save our jobs from being taken by foreigners please

Can it not? I mean, if we wanted to introduce a rule saying no work permits for musloids* wouldn’t it be more easy if we’re non-EU?

* I am not endorse such a rule

can the title of this thread be changed to “Brexit - The bramifications”

thanks

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Thing is - and please correct me if I am wrong - we what not sure exactly but several million Muslims who are British who want to work for s living - the only way to stop them getting jobs is :

a) not let them go to school because many work hard and get better qualifucations that pasty bros

b) now no longer in EU - maybe we can become the new cunt nation and adopt a sort of Apartheid ?

b) send them home as advised by the fuckwit numptycunt lady from Wales - problem is they are home, as this is their home - so sort of fucks that one

c) that would leave deportation - which is a tough one to justify given that loads our granddad died fighting that sort of tyrannical shit

Maybe above should have been on ballot paper?

Dunno i thought everyone was alright with the musloids who is already here? I think my rule* would be for new musloids only

* Let’s not call it my rule, i do not endorse such rule, i am hypopathetic

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Presumably, Ex-Trader is Trader from the Other Place. He’s a twat there too.

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See. We can deport Immigrants.

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Originally posted by @areloa-grandee

Originally posted by @pap

Not good enough to satisfy my “play the ball” standards, sadly.

“Disingenuous at best” is vague at best. Why not home in on one point, and tell me why it is incorrect?

I am poolside in Majorca - being all bourgeois - great cycling as well - fuck knows how to do that multi quote thingy - but there are several issues with it - may dig deeper after a few Sangrias this evening.

play the ball? Now you have confused me ball, man, post - all the same thing - say I post some racist shit - am I still worthy of just having my post criticised or would there be a collective attack on me the person for being a racist shit? (I would hope so) - whilst that is extreme, principle is the same, how can you challenge an opinion without it in effect criticising the person? Because I suggest that the expressed post is an expression of their belief and thus character. I would also suggest that Ex-trader describing me (to paraphrase) a cunt not worthy of respect might be considered playing the man not the ball?

You can say John Pilger is disingenuous because…

Then list things he says which conflict with the truth.

People can then make whatever judgement they want on the man.