Makes two of us then, given your warped definition of it…
No idea where you got that from, but given the quite unprecedented swing from Labour to the tories throughout labour’s heartlands, I suspect it’s utter bollocks.
Was in the election stats… so, no, not bollocks
“Britain really became snob-sensitive in the wake of the EU referendum of 2016. Many commentators claimed that a new wave of snobbery had been unleashed by Remainers. And that’s partly true. Too often I have heard my Remainer friends bemoan those “ghastly” Brexiteers.”
Quite interesting remark by Cosmo Landesman, in an article on snobbery.
Actually, I think you’ll find it a poll amongst Labour members with a relatively small sample frame. That’s not 3/4 of Labour voters.
Who the fuck knew what 3/4s of Labour voters actually constituted after your Quisling hero Hilary Benn took to almost destroying Parliamentary democracy in this country?
So who are we going to believe? You and your “not bollocks” “facts”, or the general election result and our own lying eyes?
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The general election had two key influences - brexit and Corbyn,
The Labour vote got split by the Brexit factor in sufficient numbers to cause the swing
The tory vote hardened, because whilst the majority of the remainers didn’t want Brexit, they feared Corbyn more (particularly in the absence of a coherent Brexit strategy) and decided to go for the lesser of two evils.
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Take a look at some of the stats here… especially around levels of education and the percentages that voted labour who also voted remain… etc… unfortunately the new younger voters many who voted labour did not get a chance to vote in the referendum or did not … I am trying to locate the at a on 3/4 figure, that suggested over 12 million traditional labour voters were remainers (not sure why you are introducing membership which is small in comparison to electorate)…
also see
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48039984 which suggested 70% of Labour voters in 2017 election voted Remain… So would it not be a bit fucking stupid of Labour to simply ignore them and go full steam ahead with a hard Brexit as you seem to suggest the ref was all about… Labour/Corbyn, knew the majority of their support were and remain remainers… folks who made judgements on the pros and cons, despite political doctrine, and came to very different conclusions, and younger folks who it would most impact on…
Agree, but in going by the change in popular vote between 2017 and 2019, it was about 2 million voters or so I think… certainly not insignificant, who would as Pap correctly suggests have been frustrated by labour not going with a cast iron Hard Brexit guarantee… what Pap FAILS to accept is how many would have switched to say Lib Dems if they had, given the huge numbers of Remain voters in their ranks, and I suggest there would have been more than 2 million… I suspect that the Labour strategists knew they were between a rock and a hard place… Go hard Brexit, risk losing voters to Lib Dems, go for second ref on brexit type/deal and see northern ‘traditional voters’ lost to Tories/Brexit parties?
In Pap’s view of democracy, 14mil Remain voters should just have accepted it and therefore, allowed the GE to be run on other issues apart from Brexit, which he believed would have delivered delivered Corbyn into number 10. This is where he and I disagree most, as IMHO it is a democratic right to follow your beliefs and seek change, in this case supporting a party that would soften Brexit as much as possible or at least give us a say in any deal. After all, even many Brexit campaigners were for a softer more integrated deal… Pap calls anyone who stuck to their remain principles the ‘anti-democrats who let the tories win’… a rather perverse and irrational logic imho. Calling someone anti-democratic for exercising their democratic rights, and suggesting all main parties conform to a single view on the matter. I notice he has to date not called the Lib dems or their voters anti-democratic… only those labour voters who he believes resulted in the Party not taking a hard Brexit stance, despite this going against the view of the majority of their voters…
My guess, based on the numbers is that had labour been fully behind a ‘remain stance or at least a 2nd ref after a suitable cooling off period’ and joined officially with other remain parties as the tories/brexit party did, they would have won the popular vote (we saw a small majority or ‘will of the people’ in Brexit speak, actually vote for parties in favour of a softer stance)… but our first past the post system and how the Brexit vote dominated many ‘traditional labour seats’ would probably still have returned a Tory majority, albeit a much smaller one. But it remains important not to confuse popular opinion and voting with FPTP.
So accept a hard brexit under Labour or accept a hard brexit under a Tory majority was the GE choice that Pap wanted… not really a democratic choice at all if Brexit was against your principles - Our democratic right was to vote for a party that would seek a softer solution… It was Labours choice to do as they did.
Pap, what you are/were suggesting is that anyone not voting for a party that was fully committed to Hard brexit was anti-democratic… you might as well be saying we should have BANNED parties who were pro-remain from standing if it was anti-democratic to vote for one? Could not make it up 
Fucking get your numbers right, mush.
It was 16.2million Remain voters.
And yes, they have to fucking shut up and get on with it, just like after a general election when we don’t get the government we’d like.
General elections are actually worse in terms of will of the people. The last time a government got a popular majority was 1935.
So yeah. Fucking shut up and get on with it.
… yawn, like a broken record, that never answers the points made… ‘mush’
So should we have banned any party form stating in the GE on a second ref/remain stance? Answer, get on with it!
Nope. It’s perfectly fine to suggest constitutional change during a general election.
It’s fucking electoral suicide to go against a referendum result, as Lib Dems (revoke) and Labour (more bollocks and second referendum).
But if parties want to do that, they can.
How well does that work out for them?
At fucking last!!!
How it works out for them is up to the electorate.
What the fuck are you blathering on about? This is not a new position.
Referendums and general elections are both legitimate ways to exercise constitutional change.
However, if your big constitutional “change” in a general election is not to implement another big constitutional change, a popular referendum result, you’re fucked.
yes, and? no one has been debating that, just the way you then dismiss folks democratic right to vote with their beliefs as opposed to the ref result. You have done nothing but blame those who believe in remain fr fucking with the mind of Corbyn and making him go the way he did on Brexit… What has fucked the Labour party IMHO, is not recognising that the vast majority of their voters (not members) were remainers and not supporting that position completely and campaigner that way in 2016… They ended being more fractured on Europe than the Tories for the 20 years or more before the referendum…
… but you want to blame someone, so yo blame refiners for sticking to their beliefs… That is the warped and irrational logic
I blame you because you’re to blame. Absent the perceived support (mostly just a bunch of fucking losers on the 'net operating multiple sock puppets) there is no way any of the professional losers would have been able to adopt that position.
You all thought you knew better.
That’s fair enough. What makes me howl is that you still think that now.
LOLs 
That reply just illustrates what a sad bitter-and-twisted-chip-on-shoulder-knob you are… you talk about accepting the ref result, yet can’t accept the GE one… having to find a pathetic excuse that contradicts your own definition of democracy… its fucking hilarious… If I and fellow remainers were actually to blame for the Tory fuckwit in number 10 right now, it would almost be worth it, just to to fuck you off… sadly, my own issue with your ‘chip’ is less critical than the shit you and your Brexit voting chums have consigned the most vulnerable in the UK to, happily sacrificed on the alter of your own self-indulgent importance…
What is genuinely hilarious (as opposed to just fucking sad) is that you seem to think a few folks who debate for the EU like me have had any influence over the election result… according to you we are insignificant… fuck me, i never knew I had that much influence, despite my own vote counting for fuck all voting Labour in a two horse SNP /LIB DEM race in my constituency… fuck me my influence must extend beyond Sotonians.com across the planet… so tell me, is it just me, or people ‘like me’ - you know those who simply supported parties who stood for what they believed in?
You would have been better off just admitting you would have liked to ban any party that did not 100% support the ref result, it would have been more credible 
and you could then blame it all on a low turnout.
The ref simply revealed what many folks always suspected… there is a sad and unfortunate right wing and ‘suspicious of migrants’ underbelly in this country, even amongst the so called ‘traditional’ labour voter - and you cant stand it… there is a reason why so many voted Brexit up North… you just dont have the stomach to see it for what it is, especially in ‘labour’ heartlands.
I find it ridiculous that you have to get personal, or into some pretty broad fucking generalisations just to make a point.
What’s important is the chip on my shoulder and the racist North.
Leave the keyboard alone, FFS.
hahaha - jeez do you really lack such self awareness ? seriously? Making it personal? what do you thin half your baiting comments are all about? Stop acting all victim, just because you had you arse kicked after you began a bit of personal jousting…
You think no one notices? its fucking bait… you know it, and I am just happy to oblige.
Its only you that is making yourself look ridiculous with your contradictions, yet start crying the moment you are called out on it…
Leave keyboard alone? - May be you need to lie down a while?
You are to blame.
I think of every real life encounter you must have had, based on comments you make here, and think “fuck. how many Tory voters did he create this week?”