Sadly this kind of media attention grabbing and lets be honest rare situation ends up dominating the agenda and distorts the real issues, which to be honest are rather simple… we just want equality for all and removal of prejudice. This whole ‘woke’ bullshit is just like the ‘PC’ monika… easily grabbed by those who seem less enlightened to mock, or take the piss out of those who just see fairness and equality a basic human right.
The fact that is it unfair that a transperson may get an advantage over a non trans person in a physically demanding sporting contest is irrelevant - that should be an issue for the governing body of the sport to determine and simply have categories that ensure fair competition… I have to admit, if people want to get in a cage and knock seven bails of shit out of each other, then does it matter whether they used to have balls or not? Bigger question is what the fuck is going on in their heads to want to do this in the first place
… where someone takes a piss is simply solved by having unisex toilet cubicles as exist in many offices already and training blokes not to piss over the seat and floor…
But seriously, I wish the media attention was more focussed on the challenges, prejudices and psychological mare, that folks must have if they feel so strongly about their sex v gender, as opposed to a former bloke winning in sport- its like its become the new circus freak show for the media with the ‘people’ pointing and laughing…convenient for those who dont want to address their own prejudices
It matters because it’s the difference between being a female MMA fighter and a professional woman-beater.
Are they not the same thing?
I think the term woman-beater has strong connotations that it’s a man doing the beating.
Would you be comfortable with a legit straight up contest between a bloke and a woman in MMA?
Is this not the same thing?
I am not comfortable with MMA at all, whoever is beating the crap out of each other as per my comment earlier …
Worse is perhaps the fact folks actually get their kicks from watching others fight… no matter how 'staged ’ it might be or not.
I just think the headline grabbing stories like this and the weightlifting at the olympics is unhelpful at best and at worst deliberate to avoid addressing the real issues of inequality and prejudice.
It reminds be of when The Sun… made up a story about Red Ken and the GLC wanting to ban Baa baa Black sheep…, it was made up to ridicule political correctness and the GLC by people who obviously did not like political correctness (and the GLC) because it meant it shamed their ‘isms’ …
Make the focus ‘man beats women’ and you get more agreement that its ‘all wrong’… A story about an adult debate on how to manage a future in which the biological boundaries in sport are more complex and may need new catagorization or eligibility etc is therefore marginalised…
The biological boundaries in sport have been pretty clear for some time. Participation is segregated for a reason, and those reasons haven’t disappeared - irrespective of what someone identifies as.
I think these stories are very helpful as they illustrate, in stark terms, why those biological boundaries need to be in place.
You are missing the point… completely… Of course the biological boundaries in sport are clear, but what is not is how trans folks fit into that… and that clearly needs addressing through the appropriate debate. However, issue of prejudice and inequality is not helped by making the focus of the trans issues around ‘man beating up women’ which generally means joe blogs is focussed on the ridiculous (and dangerous), yet RARE issue in sport…as opposed bigger social questions around human rights
I think you’re obscuring the point.
There are certain choices people make in life that bar them from making other choices. This is one of them.
I think it’s less helpful to deny objective reality. It’s not fair and I would not be happy if one of my female friends or relatives was an MMA fighter and in a ring with someone born male.
Women’s rights are human rights too.
Agree, as I think I said previously. You can’t have a sex change if you want to carry on competing. Even outside of the fighting arena, it’s unfair on nearly all levels. It’s an uneven playing field.
Genuinely could see more people dying in the ring if you allow this.
We should invent something called Trans-World-Sport. It could be shown at an ungodly hour on Channel 4 on a Sunday morning.
…or claims to identify as. That’s the problem in the particular case you’ve highlighted, he can claim to identify as whatever he wants. Nobody can disprove his claims, or even dare to dispute them nowadays.
And I agree fully with this, but my point is that this seems to be the consistently dominant story headline, which leave folks thinking its all just ridiculous (which men competing against women in these physical battles is irrespective of surgical changes) - doing nothing, in fact undermining the critical issues around equality and human rights…
… and the point is they should be free to identify as what they want without any sniggering and backlash, or prejudice, which becomes more and more difficult when the story is always focussed on the RARE ridiculous situations where a former bloke is beating up women… which despite needing resolution, is a huge distortion of the day-to-day issues facing trans folks
So, you do concede that’s what’s happening here then?
I have never suggested otherwise. (but i do question any women or man who feels this sis a reasonable thing to do…) But its not the biggest issue. That can be resolved by sporting rules being adapted/updated. The bigger issue is how society as a whole evolves its thinking and just treats people as people whoever they chose to be.
It’s not just sporting rules though, is it. There’s two ends of the spectrum, at one there are no issues of privacy or anything else, nobody is upset, harmed or offended by anyone’s declared gender identity, and your general view as expressed above is perfectly valid. At the other, there’s the case pap referred to here. In between, there are a myriad of scenarios where biological women are placed in situations they may or may not feel comfortable with. The JK Rowling episode showed pretty clearly what they can expect if they raise objections, and to me that’s wrong. You and I can sit here and debate it, but we’re never going to be the ones directly affected by it.
I know this is a very male oriented site so all of the above, regardless of points of view, is a male view.
maybe it’s best to wait until we get some genuine female views on here - otherwise the arguments seems very male centric and a bit of a waste of time.
Anyway, off to get some dinner & beer
I find your statement sexist.
Exactly 
