It might seem odd, silly etc, but what if Germans turned up in Nazi uniforms? How would that be any different? How many more years will England fans act like cunts doing singing dam busters tunes when we play the Germans? Does the passage of time really legitimise the iconography as many no longer know the true history?
‘Cancel Culture’ is the new ‘PC gone mad’ - the desperate cries of those who feel its an infringement on their liberty if they can’t celebrate the shit we did in the past, because its our ‘glorious past’ - Sorry but fuck em. There is a place for understanding our history in context and its in the classroom or museum where the full accounts and context can be shared… its not sport.
I hate the term, because we SHOULD be looking to make sure we don’t celebrate the fact we acted like cunts years ago.
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Nah - they’ve lost the plot
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So how is it any different from say Germans turning up in Nazi uniforms, after all genocide against another religion is what both represent? As I said, how does the passage of time legitimise one and not the other?
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Do you think that the Germans of today wouldn’t turn up at football matches in nazi uniforms if they’d won the war and conquered Europe?
Really? So ‘winning’ justifies genocide?
For one thing, due to Germany’s Denazification laws they’d probably get jailed for it…
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Where did I say that it did? I asked whether you thought that if Germany had conquered Europe in the last war, that there wouldn’t be a handful of pissed up Germans rocking up to their home matches in caricatures of nazi uniforms.
Sorry, but your post suggested that it would be acceptable, if you feel it should be acceptable for the ‘winners’ of the crusades should be able to dress up as the victors…
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Ah, your usual approach. Everyone else in Europe is brilliant and we’re all cunts. I think I’ve got that now.
Really? You been on the source?, seems a default rather lazy ‘insult’ when folks cant think of how to address the point made…
What the fuck does this have to do with Europe? Its about a simple principle - does time legitimise ‘celebrating’ jokingly or otherwise past ‘glories’ of that nature?
Maybe stick with Sickopeadia
The Germans have it in law to ban Nazi symbols and regalia in day to day stuff don’t they?
Usually on your side of opinion. Not here, sorry.
Stop and have a think.
You’ve pointedly failed to address the straightforward question I asked. I haven’t claimed anywhere that the crusaders were a bunch of angels, you’re the one who played the Godwin card by bringing up the nazis.
Its difficult to address this without insulting your intelligence since you have failed to see the original point…
Is UEFA mad, bad, ridiculous, or right in banning the crusade symbolism?
My answer was by way of a simple principle. Would it be acceptable to wear ‘OTHER’ costumes representative of having carried our similar genocide (The point is the SAME whether as part of a victory or defeat, genocide is genocide)
You suggested that maybe there would be pissed up Germans wearing Nazi uniforms, had they won the war. As stated above victory or defeat has fuckall to do with the principle of wearing costumes associated with genocide
We tend to see UEFA as being ridiculous, ‘its just a bit harmless fun’ because our frame of reference is near a 1000 years, as opposed to 70 years. But does that make it any more acceptable to ‘celebrate’ it because of the passage of time? IMHO, it does not.
You seemed to think this was about Europe or some other such nonsense, which it clearly is not.
As for Godwin card, behave, In this case its a fair example to emphasise a point, I could have used maybe some hideous general from the recent Balkan wars, but the questions is the same: Why do we assume the passage of time makes these things acceptable? What next, dress up as slave owners from the ‘colonies’?
OK, I’ll address this point which you originally made. The most obvious reason is that there are people living now with a close personal connection to the atrocities carried out by the nazis. Plenty of Jews and Gypsies can say “those bastards killed my parents, or grandparents”. Nobody alive can say that about the crusades, those having ended over 500 years (or approximately 1000 generations, give or take, depending on the average lifespan over that period ) ago. So somebody wearing a crusaders uniform, (or their notion of it,) is not going to have the same direct effect on the surviving victims or their families as someone putting on a nazi uniform. I’d also personally think that current popular culture views the two in entirely different ways, partly due to the passage of time and partly because of the understanding that morals, ethics and values (religious or otherwise) were rather different 1000 years ago when the crusades began from how we think now.
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Anything that stops drunken Brits dressing up as a Greek who served in the Roman Army and symbolise a pan European Army of oppression genocide & occupation should of course be banned
Along with size 24 ladies wearing only large belts & size 8 halter tops.
Imho
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What you say is correct… but, there are cultures and peoples who still find this symbolism offensive after 500 years - and its no surprise really that there has never really been a reconciliation between ‘Moorish’ cultures and the rest. I argue that it should not matter, whether there is someone alive to be offended or not, because its the behaviour and principle that is more important.
My last point perhaps illustrated that best; at what point in time would it become acceptable to wear ‘salvery’ symbolism, or dress up as some other former dictator or murdering cunts when at a football match?
So you don’t believe that principles change over time at all? For example, in another 500 years, my guess is that whoever’s left will be castigating the current generation for wantonly overpopulating the globe and industrialising to the extent of leaving it all but uninhabitable. Do you think that your ghost will then be saying “yes, it’s all true, I killed everybody, blame me”?
The principles dont change, attitude do. The ethics of slavery and the principle that it is wrong have not changed since we first created it… what has changed is our attitude towards it… thank fuck.
I would hope tat in 500 years time They will have recognised the shit we have done to this planet yes. It s wrong now, just that the majority keep electing governments that dont give a shit
Eighty quid I paid for mine, and now I’m banned from wearing it???