It would be total bullshit though, here’s two from the last vote
Leaving EU would mean the NHS gets £350m /wk
Leaving Europe will cost every household £4,300 pa
3 Likes
I disagree on David Miliband. I believe he demonstrated his true colours when he resigned his seat, abandoning a position that most would feel privileged to occupy, because he’d finished up second best to his brother. Someone once described him by saying that when you talked to him, he was always looking over your shoulder to see if there was anyone more important you can talk to.
If he couldn’t even serve the citizens of Sunderland in a moment of personal turmoil, then I think that excludes him from looking after the country.
Besides, I think you have an essential disconnect with Labour’s essential problems, especially in the North. Those with a reasonable memory will recall Brown’s disastrous off-mike comments about Gillian Duffy. Those comments represent an attitude, common among Blairite MPs, that they know best, largely because they won a landslide in 1997, but bolstered by the fact that they managed to install their power base into their safest seats.
The problem for those MPs now is they neither look like their members nor their leadership team. Take my patch as an example. Half of all Merseyside MPs belong to the Progress faction, most went after Corbyn, and yet the city drew the most impressive crowds of his leadership campaign outside of London.
I think Corbyn has made mistakes, but in a way, there was no way of avoiding them. I think they’re still being far too concialiatory with MPs that have done everything they can to wreck Labour’s chances. I reckon Blair should be expelled from the Party, and that’s a mild view. Some Brexiters have accused him of treason for his recent speech on Europe. I wouldn’t go that far myself, but having the most discredited politician still indelibly associated with the party, speaking about getting back into Europe on the eve of a by-election in a Eurosceptic seat is not going to help.
My genuine fear is that the obstacles he faces are going to be too big for him to get over. He has been treated terribly by the media, who only seem interested when someone is plunging a knife into him. The hope, of course, is that the media has lost some of its power. It really didn’t damage Trump’s chances in the way it thought it might.
That all said, I don’t think he’s put many feet wrong. Was it a mistake to try a collegiate approach? In hindsight, yes, but it had to be tried. Copeland is a symbolic disaster, but realistically, it was a couple of thousand votes in a constituency where the margin had already been shrinking. Reed’s own vote share was down 3.7% in the last General Election.
Corbyn is doing a decent job in very difficult circumstances. One thing I don’t think he gets enough credit for is the way that he handled the EU referendum. Widely criticised by the so-called experts, his major crime was not lying through his teeth about the need to Remain, instead presenting a measured case which got 2/3rds of Labour voter support. His press chief Milne described the whole thing as a “win win”. It really was. Labour could never grasp the nettle itself and I’d argue that Europe was killing Labour support as much as it was dividing the Tories.
Come on @chertsey-saint of course you can
The whole economy of Government is based on the amount of Tax that the Government can rake in from the people and Businesses. This does not change radically year on year, So the amount of money to work with is basically known. The shortfall is always made up in the Borrowing figure. Or paid back in a surplus year (not often)
So why don’t both parties give full breakdowns of where they will spend it and let the people decide.
It should go in all the political threads in fact why not just make them all into one “The Political Thread”
NB I said both parties as I believe there are only two parties capable of being elected to Government.
1 Like
We haven’t left the EU yet though have we?
Well, I guess we’ll agree to disagree on Milliband.
One problem with Corbyn and his supporters is that they seem to believe that no-one could have done any better. Of course, no-one can prove it either way.
The next problem is that Corbyn and his supporters seem to think they are in touch with the British public because he managed to obtain many votes in the leadership election, and that a lot of people turn up to rally’s. In all reality that means fuck all, apart from the fact that those on the far left are far more active when they want something to happen. The issue is there are not nearly enough of them around to sustain a challenge.
And the last issue with Corbyn and his supporters is that they are forever blaming everyone else, whether that be other members of the party, the press, the Government. When he gets hammered at the next election it will be the electorate that gets the blame.
Corbyn is the wrong man, with the wrong policies at the wrong time.
That’s a disaster or a combination.
But business is based on external factors, and as such so is the amount of tax they get from said businesses. Too variable and too difficult.
Tories and Lib Dems I presume?
So would you please explain how any Government could make any plans at all?
As what your saying it’s lets wait until we see what we get until we plan our next warship or defense project?
Although this could explain the difficulty our defense forces are in .
No even small Governments have a basic idea of the annual income of the country and budget accordingly as I said earlier the Lending and Surplus budgets are for to oversee the shortfalls of each progressive government.
err no not Tories and Lib dems
SNP and Plaid Cymru might just do it.
1 Like
They can make plans based on projections, and they all do.
What you can’t do is hold them to those plans as you suggested and call the election null and void if they don’t stick to those targets, which is the part I have an issue with.
Dude, he resigned his seat and abrogated his personal responsibility to his constituents because he came second in sibling rivalry stakes. The best thing that man ever did for the Labour Party was not get elected. It was his failure to get the unions on board that prompted the One Member One Vote system that has twice swept Corbyn to power.
One problem with Corbyn and his supporters is that they seem to believe that no-one could have done any better. Of course, no-one can prove it either way.
We’ve got memories, not that we need them, of the complete failure of the so-called Third Way. The last opposition believed in austerity as a point of truth. “Red” Ed Miliband wouldn’t even join an NHS picket or march with the workers. Harriet Harman instructing members to abstain on benefit cuts bills because she was shit-scared of the Tory spin, and had no clue on how to counter it.
The last opposition was an opposition in name only. It opposed little, and offered even less in the way of solutions. Do you know how depressing it was, back in 2012, to be Labour campaigner and for your top idea to be the repeal of the bedroom tax?
The next problem is that Corbyn and his supporters seem to think they are in touch with the British public because he managed to obtain many votes in the leadership election, and that a lot of people turn up to rally’s. In all reality that means fuck all, apart from the fact that those on the far left are far more active when they want something to happen. The issue is there are not nearly enough of them around to sustain a challenge.
I don’t think I’m in touch with the British public because of any of that. I work with them and live with them. I still live on my old estate for about a month each year. On some issues, especially immigration, I think Corbyn’s team are still getting it wrong, even if they’re trying to do the right thing.
And the last issue with Corbyn and his supporters is that they are forever blaming everyone else, whether that be other members of the party, the press, the Government. When he gets hammered at the next election it will be the electorate that gets the blame.
The blame lies squarely with the Progress faction of the Parliamentary Labour Party, and there is a huge amount of evidence to support this, much of it provided from their own gobs.
Corbyn is the wrong man, with the wrong policies at the wrong time.
That’s a disaster or a combination.
Well. there’s the thing. Corbyn’s policies have been blind-tested and have done remarkably well, even among right wingers. I’ve yet to see a substantive right wing take down of his ten pledges, for example.
1 Like
So what your saying is the party you have voted for because of the promises that they made should not be held accountable if they don’t keep the promises?
Precisely why we are where we are today @chertsey-saint
1 Like
Getting back on topic, UKIP are surely done now.
What is the point of them?
Fucking hell, Pap. Lift the blinkers, mate. That byelection was a fucking disaster for Labour (that it was a couple of thousand votes is neither here nor there)
Labour are fucked as a general election candidates. Absolutely fucked. You can blame whoever you want for that but Corbyn has fuck all chance, absolutely fuck all chance, of winning the next election.
I was happy to give Corbyn a go but he’s a walking, principled disaster. Nothing’ll change though as the left wing of the party are far too rabid to back down.
Here’s to another 8 years (at least) or Tory rule.
If there was an election today, I wouldn’t vote for the Tories so can we stop with this. I didn’t vote for Theresa May, and this Government has gone too far in a number of areas, mainly down to a piss poor opposition not being able to take advantage.
However, you can’t hold a government to policies that are based around taxation garnered from economic activities. It’s not realistic in any way.
There isn’t one. Like the BNP, they are now a relic that doesn’t represent enough people.
Based on what? A by-election win the Tories put everything behind and played the nuclear card?
The biggest mistake in Copeland was putting a right winger in to contest the seat.
The Tories have stolen their clothes on the manner of leaving the EU & also done the same with Grammar schools. They’ve totally and utterly bottled their NHS policy & are starting to do the same with their approach to welfare. IMO there is a massive opportunity for a right wing party in working class areas, however just aping the labour parties social policies, with added anti immigration isn’t the way to do it.
The interesting thing is what Arron Banks does next
Bet you a pint neither come to pass
Can’t remember who the quote is from, but I heard Banks described as an oversupply of the elite. The Establishment won’t admit him, but he’s loaded and he wants his say regardless.
If Banks’ ambition is to create a new right wing party for the working class, then I think he’s going to have tremendous difficulty after his recent comments.
He’s looking to drain the swamp & targeting specific MPs . With massive funds & a decent organisation he could be on to something. As I said my preference, is the English nationalist cause.
The next big climb down will be on foreign aid, when may will move in ukips direction again. Meaning they’ll become even more irrelevant. For a party with one mp and hated by half the population it’s amazing that 3 of their policies, unthinkable 10 years ago are going to become government policy. Leaving the EU , grammar schools and slashing foergin aid
hello. I’ve not read that post but just wanted to say “fuck you lord fuckcunter”
1 Like