šŸ¦ž Trans rights

She went through puberty as a male so yes she does have an unfair advantage, there is no way around that fact.

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I think we might be turning a corner onto some kind of sensible ground. The recent ruling that you can’t be sacked for being gender-critical is a big step forward.

Strangely enough, I think that this will be counter-productive for trans activists too. I mean, pick a less obvious sport than weight-lifting, which is all about strength and is bound to attract attention.

The other thing is that this is the Olympics, a global event, where the trans activism movement seems largely confined to the Anglo-sphere.

Most of the world is less woke, and is going ask ā€œwhat the fuck?ā€, especially if a gold is achieved.

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Christ :rage::unamused:

I found this quite an interesting article which did explore different attitudes, but I guess anything that says something bad about trans is wrong. There has been quite a lot of praise for the article too

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I think it’d be more of a scandal if the BBC weren’t reporting on cases of coerced rape.

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Don’t worry. That won’t get much airtime, if any at all. :rage:

I’ve been following the ups and downs of this issue for some time. I think this is where the bubble bursts for the less reasonable trans rights activists. I’ve listened to Kathleen Stock and while I’ve not read her books, I’ve heard that they deal with the issue fairly and without sensationalism.

I also think that there is an amazing amount of misogyny around who ends up getting criticism. Douglas Murray has written and spoken extensively on the issue, but doesn’t seem to attract much flak. I find it odd and rather disturbing that the focus of trans rights activists are nearly always women. Rowling, Attwood, Rosie Downling, the lesbian community in general.

Finally, I find the whole concept to be an outcrop of sexism, and an adherence to social constructs which have historically been pretty fluid.

Some of my best female mates were, and in some senses still are, total tomboys. I’ve known people men that are camp as knickers and completely straight (actually a fucking good strategy - the women seemed to line up to attempt to ā€œconvertā€ them).

They don’t have any bother choosing a toilet, a pronoun or a changing room. They’re also not going to face lifelong medicalisation or sterilisation.

What the fuck was ever wrong with that?

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Good post @pap

The bit above made me think. I know similar people to those you mentioned in the paragraph before that one. I suspect that they are comfortable in who they are and not being afraid to let people know, so don’t need to face the above.

Not sure if I’ve expressed that right, but I hope you get what I mean.

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It’s late, I’m working tomorrow and don’t want to be all radical.
But. I get that people have genetics and more that mean they are not where they should be. I’ve spoken to length with many, had school friends trapped in the wrong body et al.
And I know they deserve acceptance and we need to do the right thing.
But I always come back to my Mum and her generation, her reaction to Gay Rights (even John Inman on TV). Those are shared by many globally (hell this place is about to ban LGBTQ protests & marches.
The thing is, my views were not formed by someone ramming THEIR opinion down my throat. In fact I have never let that sway me in anything. What WORRIES me is that this ā€œcauseā€ is damaging the actual spreading of understanding, of knowledge.
And, I am beginning to think it is becoming
ā€œI have my rights fvck everyone else innitā€ is taking over the debate (and many others.
I’m off to bed

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We’re mainly middle age / very ancient people on here (apologies @JxgrSaint @SimplySaint) so we probably see it as more black and white- though you’re probably right & social media is there for those who know how to use it.

Completely separate but…I do a fair bit of work on mortality / morbidity and from what little data there is about trans people (despite the media saying every other person is trans) the health outcomes appear pretty poor (mentally and physically). It’s probably too soon for the new wave transitioners see it work through…

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This might seem a bit ā€œOstrich head in the sandā€ but personally I don’t have to struggle with the question(s) as it rarely touches my life.

I’m hetero, my wife, my friends, my daily associates and casual acquaintances are too. Since I retired from office life many years ago, I no longer come into contact with homosexual/lesbian people. Their sexual proclivities never bothered me then, they don’t now.

Like most people of my upbringing, I treat everyone I meet with the same regard/disregard depending on their attitude towards myself.

If someone shouts in my face, I turn and walk away.

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It’s the instant change aspect that bothers me

For my entire life until now the concept of pronouns hasn’t been a thing. Now we are told that some may choose to use a different pronoun and woe betide us if we get it wrong

If a ā€œwomanā€ or ā€œmanā€ chooses to be referred to as a ā€œtheyā€, I will try my best to get it right, but I am only human and I can almost guarantee I will fuck it up from time to time.

It’s not done maliciously- but we are dealing with cultural change here and that does take time to sink in

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Quite. And it’s worth pointing out that anyone taking issue with your ā€œerrorā€ is certainly guilty of discrimination against their elders.

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It’s weird that this whole he/she/they/whatever has become a thing so quickly . I don’t actually know anyone who self identifies as anything other than their birth gender/sex - which is incredibly weird given the media implies everyone is trans, apparently.

It’s a bit like every white person in history / the present in the UK is racist according to the media :man_shrugging:t3:

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It’s not a bit like that, it’s exactly like that. :rage:

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