The only tool the unskilled working man has is the withdrawal of his labour . I don’t mean by striking but saying " I’m not doing that for £X". If nobody will pick fruit for £X an hour then the growers will have to pay £Y an hour otherwise their fruit remains unpicked . At the moment there’s no need to increase wages to £Y because £X is 5 times the average wage in Eastern Europe. The unskilled working man gets paid to do fuck all by the state and we get cheap apples . However , if growers had to pay £Y an hour because there wasn’t an unlimited amount of unskilled labour prepared to work for £X , our apples may double in price but out taxes will go down because we’re not paying Wayne slob to play on his X box all day .
Slightly crudely put but I’ve never heard an argument to the contrary.
For the law of supply and demand to apply to absolutely everything but the labour market is an extraordinary claim requiring extraordinary evidence.
“Wages in rich countries are determined more by immigration control than anything else, including any minimum wage legislation. How is the immigration maximum determined? Not by the ‘free’ labour market, which, if left alone, will end up replacing 80–90 per cent of native workers with cheaper, and often more productive, immigrants. Immigration is largely settled by politics. So, if you have any residual doubt about the massive role that the government plays in the economy’s free market, then pause to reflect that all our wages are, at root, politically determined.”
Chang, Ha-Joon. 2011. 23 Things they Don’t Tell you about Capitalism, Thing 1: There is no such thing as a free market
It’s funny how lefties will do anything to help the poor except create the conditions to pay them more . We have enough of our own unskilled workers , we don’t need to import any.
Well I don’t think its that lefties aren’t well-meaning and don’t want to help the poor, its just that they want to help the poor in all countries across the world and (as has been proven by the response to today’s suggested policy), consider any favouritism towards the native working class to be racist and xenophobic - or at the very least crossing a line in that regard.
I mean, its a perfectly legitimate political outlook to have, but it certainly won’t win you an election.
I don’t think I remember saying any of that. It’s going to be a divisive policy that could have far right types on the steps of corporate HQs across the country. If we’re lucky, it’ll _just _be demonstrations or the policy will go the way of most of other May’s ideas (into oblivion before being realised). If we’re not, people can get towed on the basis of a name tag or a suntan.
I genuinely don’t want these threads filled with the same shit. I don’t want to have to copy and paste stuff from page 84 because it was ignored, or that the arguments are being unfairly dismissed as strawman.
There are huge practical and moral problems with this policy. There are better ways to help British workers. Don’t do yourself the disservice of reducing this to a false dichotomy. It’s not, and you’re getting to the border of invention.
Not talking about you, CB - but if the likes of the EDL turn up mob-handed to market towns to save the world from Islamic extremism, I think it’s a safe old bet as soon as the first sacrificial lamb is slaughtered on the front pages of the Mail and Express.
"Conservative Party leaders have sunk to a new low this week as they fan the flames of xenophobia and hatred in our communities and try to blame foreigners for their own failures.
“Drawing up lists of foreign workers won’t stop unscrupulous employers undercutting wages in Britain. Shutting the door to international students won’t pay young people’s tuition fee debts, and ditching doctors from abroad won’t cut NHS waiting lists.
“The Conservatives will instead foster division and discrimination in our workplaces and communities.
“Once again, they are making false promises on immigration they can’t deliver. Instead of turning people against each other, ministers should take action now to deal with the real impact of migration.
“They should stop the abuse of migrant labour to undercut pay and conditions, which would reduce numbers. They should support communities with high levels of migration and they should set out a positive agenda for fair migration rules as part of the Brexit negotiations for a new relationship with the European Union."
"Conservative Party leaders have sunk to a new low this week as they fan the flames of xenophobia and hatred in our communities and try to blame foreigners for their own failures. “Drawing up lists of foreign workers won’t stop unscrupulous employers undercutting wages in Britain. Shutting the door to international students won’t pay young people’s tuition fee debts, and ditching doctors from abroad won’t cut NHS waiting lists.
“The Conservatives will instead foster division and discrimination in our workplaces and communities.
“Once again, they are making false promises on immigration they can’t deliver. Instead of turning people against each other, ministers should take action now to deal with the real impact of migration. “They should stop the abuse of migrant labour to undercut pay and conditions, which would reduce numbers. They should support communities with high levels of migration and they should set out a positive agenda for fair migration rules as part of the Brexit negotiations for a new relationship with the European Union."
Hysterical wet blanket that he is.
I like the way he does things to be fair. Outline fears on what could happen, suggest what the Government should look at tackling, but not actually giving a method or an explanation on how. We can all do that.
“Yet again, Labour’s response to a growing threat from a resurgent and increasingly reckless Russia is to remove the deterrent of Trident. This could lead to us being ruled by Russia in the next 3 years. What they should do is solve all the issues in the Crimea and create world peace.”
My tenant isn’t on benefits (apart from probably child benefit), so not an issue! I wouldn’t take on a tenant on benefits, I have before and been stung by them leaving my flat with £4k worth of damage. Untrustworthy.
Fuck’s sake, I’m going to be on this thread all day, replying to myself. We’ll try to handle two troublesome interests in one post for the sake of brevity.
The prime minister said: “If you believe you are a citizen of the world, you are a citizen of nowhere.”
Front National (FN) leader Le Pen, who was once tried for inciting racial hatred for comparing Muslims praying publicly to the Nazi occupation, responded: “Exactly.”
Yeah. And obviously the NHS won’t lose half it’s employees.
But then because they’ll be back home providing care where it’s actually needed instead of helping obese unfit people the foreign aid budget can be scrapped as well
Like it.
Plus all those Comprehensive kids who still couldn’t get a gcse can go back to making beds in hotels & all those nasty Polish delis can reopen as charity stores or even become Primark to employ more school leavers
"Conservative Party leaders have sunk to a new low this week as they fan the flames of xenophobia and hatred in our communities and try to blame foreigners for their own failures. “Drawing up lists of foreign workers won’t stop unscrupulous employers undercutting wages in Britain. Shutting the door to international students won’t pay young people’s tuition fee debts, and ditching doctors from abroad won’t cut NHS waiting lists.
“The Conservatives will instead foster division and discrimination in our workplaces and communities.
“Once again, they are making false promises on immigration they can’t deliver. Instead of turning people against each other, ministers should take action now to deal with the real impact of migration. “They should stop the abuse of migrant labour to undercut pay and conditions, which would reduce numbers. They should support communities with high levels of migration and they should set out a positive agenda for fair migration rules as part of the Brexit negotiations for a new relationship with the European Union."
Hysterical wet blanket that he is.
hysterical indeed. You not him.
I like the way he does things to be fair. Outline fears on what could happen, suggest what the Government should look at tackling, but not actually giving a method or an explanation on how. We can all do that.
very similar to May then.
“Yet again, Labour’s response to a growing threat from a resurgent and increasingly reckless Russia is to remove the deterrent of Trident. This could lead to us being ruled by Russia in the next 3 years. What they should do is solve all the issues in the Crimea and create world peace.”
you certainly like you’re hystronics. 3 years? So under tory rule then?
"Conservative Party leaders have sunk to a new low this week as they fan the flames of xenophobia and hatred in our communities and try to blame foreigners for their own failures. “Drawing up lists of foreign workers won’t stop unscrupulous employers undercutting wages in Britain. Shutting the door to international students won’t pay young people’s tuition fee debts, and ditching doctors from abroad won’t cut NHS waiting lists.
“The Conservatives will instead foster division and discrimination in our workplaces and communities.
“Once again, they are making false promises on immigration they can’t deliver. Instead of turning people against each other, ministers should take action now to deal with the real impact of migration. “They should stop the abuse of migrant labour to undercut pay and conditions, which would reduce numbers. They should support communities with high levels of migration and they should set out a positive agenda for fair migration rules as part of the Brexit negotiations for a new relationship with the European Union."
Hysterical wet blanket that he is.
hysterical indeed. You not him.
I like the way he does things to be fair. Outline fears on what could happen, suggest what the Government should look at tackling, but not actually giving a method or an explanation on how. We can all do that.
very similar to May then.
“Yet again, Labour’s response to a growing threat from a resurgent and increasingly reckless Russia is to remove the deterrent of Trident. This could lead to us being ruled by Russia in the next 3 years. What they should do is solve all the issues in the Crimea and create world peace.”
you certainly like you’re hystronics. 3 years? So under tory rule then?
What a strange thing to say when it is quite clearly laced with hyperbole? I thought you were more intelligent than that. Slap on the wrist for me thinking that…
Have you found examples of where I have used the phrase “hard left” repeatedly yet?
I’m waiting, and you seem to have backed off of that debate somewhat.
“Yet again, Labour’s response to a growing threat from a resurgent and increasingly reckless Russia is to remove the deterrent of Trident. This could lead to us being ruled by Russia in the next 3 years. What they should do is solve all the issues in the Crimea and create world peace.”
but I’ve never heard an argument to the contrary.
