Powerful read
BBC News - Bilal Sarwary: āThe plane hit the tower and all our lives changedā
Reports of a bomb and gunfire outside the Abbey gate at Kabul airport, initial reports of 10 dead but others have said there are āpiles and pilesā of bodies so expect the number to riseā¦
Sad but warnings were given and ignored by the crowds
60+ now
Will be interesting to see what the Taliban response to Isis will be (if any)
Holy shit
They should be able to swap IS like a fly
1 Like
Who is he blaming exactly for this? Iād hope itās not Biden, which would be a cheap shot.
Blame is irrelevant, I posted it to highlight the incompetence tbh. I watch enough movies to know you drop a grenade or 2 on the way out
But itās not irrelevant is it. Biden didnāt cause the shit show, he has to make the best of the horrendous mess heās been left with. Trump, Obama etc etc etc get away with it. Itās a bit sick for the media / politicians to suggest otherwise.
Donāt even start me on Johnson and his jingoistic gun boat diplomacy 
That I agree with. It isnāt Bidenās fault, but he has played his hand badly and will carry the can.
He really was screwed so in the end just played the hand he was dealt. Not like he will be around to worry about a legacy
1 Like
Fuck knows why so many of our politicians are still into the idea of liberal interventions. Even the Americans have realised, far too late, that you cannot bomb democracy into place.
Why havenāt our politicians got the memo?
3 Likes
Boris saying āEvacuations will go onā
It is nonsense. Yes SOME will, for a couple of days but the Troops need to pull out from the airport and that means security drops. 1st 2 shifts go and then what?
Bollocks Boris.
Equally Pen Farthing. Love the idea, but he has 30+ souls to save how do they now get to the airport, Cats & Dogs or not?
As @tiggerās US mate remarked, theyāve had a lot of time to get these evacuations sorted and there hasnāt been the political will. Indeed, Priti Patel has been trying so hard to keep people out that many of these very same people weād look to evacuate were denied earlier opportunities.
Leave a hostile environment to arrive in a hostile environmentā¦ If youāre lucky.
1 Like
Holy fuck
1 Like
The numbers are higher than I expected. Much of the danger will depend on the Talibanās ability and will to use the weapons.
Itās difficult to conjure a more complete foreign policy disaster, whether you take the claims for going in at face value or adopt a more cynical view about the real objectives.
Personally, I think the real plan was to break up problem states in the Middle East into smaller and more manageable tin-pot dictatorships amenable to Western influence.
That really has fallen apart. First, one of the biggest consequences of the invasion of Iraq was the rapid rehabilitation of relations between Iran and Iraq, kicking the shit out of each other only three and a half decades ago. The amount of aid Iran has given its neighbour means that the big sectarian divide no longer seems so big.
Iāve already said I could see the potential danger of Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan getting closer. Nukes, resources and now all this high tech materiel.
What I hadnāt really considered is how many others might weigh in with them. Iran has been sanctioned to shit and Syria is still dealing with the consequences of liberal intervention.
Itās a tinderbox of our own creation.
4 Likes
Some get it - This is a quote from Ben Wallace today
Asked how history would remember the Westās involvement in the country, Wallace says that you ādonāt fix problems like Afghanistanā.
āThe West seems to think it flies in, does a few things and everything will be alright,ā he says.
āYou donāt fix problems like Afghanistan - a thousand years of tribal fighting, war. You manage them and if you wish to engage in national building or supporting a nation, youāre probably best doing it as an international body ā¦ and you need to be prepared to be there for the long run.ā
1 Like
Should we be worried that Wallaceās points are more soundbites than sober reflection? Or a bit dishonest, presenting the place as a theatre for perma-war?
Itās all a bit vague and virtue-signalling for me, not so deftly addressing the direct causes of this crisis, choosing instead to portray the stupid but well meaning West as the latest victims of Afghanistan.
I donā t think he does get it.
I donāt think he is trying to play the victim card and Iām not sure he was trying to address the causes. - As for virtue-signaling, heās a politician so who knows - they are black belts in it.
But he is right about one thing - if you want to get into the nation building business, you need to be prepared to go the distance.
2 Likes
Cāmon. Even the term nation-building is misleading propaganda, based on pretty much every attempt to do it by force. We live in some fairly Orwellian times when we euphemise carpet-bombing and indiscriminate destruction as ānation buildingā.
So while Iād agree with Wallace that you need to go the distance when doing this sort of thing, this sort of thing isnāt nation building. Itās disproportionate aggression that was never about achieving the stated aims of the mission.
Iāve just dug out this book recommended by @Goatboy to remind myself that pretty much all of the shit happening in Afghanistan and the Middle East today is arguably down to the meddling of the UK, USA and Soviet Union back in the day.
Funny it never gets brought up by the Govt or media.
2 Likes