I’m confused, when Lou Pm’d me I replied and asked her to send nudes. Are people now trying to say that was not appropriate as this is a kind of football forum and not 100% tinder?
I don’t think this was sexist though as I asked the same of bletch and he is kind of male.
Originally posted by @Coxford_lou
Originally posted by @Sadoldgit
And I am still trying to get my head around much of this…correct me if I am wrong Lou but it seems that if you say something nice to a woman she infers that you want to shag her. If she wants to shag you too then it is ok, if she finds you unfanciable then it is not ok?
This woman, working in a male dominated field, said she’d had enough of these comments about her looks in a business environment, so she made an example of one of them.
I am not disagreeing with your main points, but as a minor aside, I would not assume this woman works in a male dominated field. I have just spent four months working with London lawyers. The ratio of women to men was a solid 2.5 to 1. At junior / trainee levels it was more like 4 to 1. Some department heads were (very good) women. The only area without women, somewhat predictably, was the overall leadership team. I am getting even further away from the point here, but they were men aged 55 + and were crap.
I think you should start a Tinder thread, Tokyo!
Originally posted by @Bucks
Originally posted by @Coxford_lou
Originally posted by @Sadoldgit
And I am still trying to get my head around much of this…correct me if I am wrong Lou but it seems that if you say something nice to a woman she infers that you want to shag her. If she wants to shag you too then it is ok, if she finds you unfanciable then it is not ok?
This woman, working in a male dominated field, said she’d had enough of these comments about her looks in a business environment, so she made an example of one of them.
I am not disagreeing with your main points, but as a minor aside, I would not assume this woman works in a male dominated field. I have just spent four months working with London lawyers. The ratio of women to men was a solid 2.5 to 1. At junior / trainee levels it was more like 4 to 1. Some department heads were (very good) women. The only area without women, somewhat predictably, was the overall leadership team. I am getting even further away from the point here, but they were men aged 55 + and were crap.
Ok fair point. And those at the top?
I’m thinking that the people who think that he was wrong and she was right are those who think that he is a dirty old man with a sexual motive. (This is worrying as my wife told me yesterday that her boss, who is also female, made a complimentary comment about me the other day which at first I took with good grace but now I am worry that she wants a shag). Possibly those who think that he hasnt done anything worth getting the pitchfork out for think that he just liked the photo and paid her a compliment without any agenda.
I had read his comments many times and still cant find why they could be seen as “sleazy” but then that is only my take.
The only thing I can say with a level of surety is that the only person who knows for sure what the intent behind his comments was is Alex Carter-Silk. The rest of us, including Charlotte Proudman, are just making assumptions.
To quote a very wise man - “Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.” Marcus Aurelius.
Mr Carter-Silk has broken no laws and has apologised. Ms Proudman has chosen to take comments made to her in private, that she has interpreted in a certain way, and spread them all over the social media in support of her stance against sexism in the workplace. We will all have our own thoughts on what has damaged male/female relations in the workplace more.
This is the only real problem I have with all this. The public outing on social media thing. We never really get the full story in these things, and to me, at least, this woman simply did the wrong thing. There are many routes she could have exhausted before just putting it out there for all the world.The first thing to do woukld be to ask “Hey, Alex Carter-Silk, WTF?” She missed the opportunity to get some actual real evidence or settle the matter.
I thought you already did with your drinks thread?
Well given it’s been all guys at the last drinks gatherings is say it’s more Grinder than Tinder.
Now you’re going to get him all excited.
I had an experience on Facebook which led to a lot of unfriendings. One of my ruder mates weighed into one of my statuses rocking a “cunt”. I had been in Northern Ireland for some time, and had added around 150 friends since moving over, and most would be totally sound with seeing that, without thinking any the less of me. Thing is, I had some fairly high up people on my friends list, so I was left with something of a dilemma. I can delete my mate’s comment at the risk of attracting an ever ruder comment for getting censored. That’d sort of violate everything I stand for. I ended up taking nearly all work people off Facebook, and learned a valuable lesson. On social media, as with nearly everything else, separate work and play.
That being the case, I am something of a LinkedIn purist. The furthest I’ll go in the name of frivolity is the odd industry related quip, but never dirty or unprofessional. Incredibly, I’ve had people admire from afar on Facebook, and it has mostly made me uncomfortable. I’ve never deleted a comment or a PM, but I have had to resolve some shit in real life and speak pretty plainly.
If anything like that turned up on my LinkedIn, I’d probably delete it immediately. The scope of that website is so narrow, wonderfully so, that it’d just look weird if I let that stand on a platform used to disseminate my “professional” ramblings.
I upvoted jet sounds, but I don’t quite think he’s putting himself in her shoes. She has a whole career ahead of her. If she deletes it after others have seen it, she looks meek. If she responds positively, she looks climbing and compliant. She chose to speak out about his reductive comments. That is her right, and I applaud her for using it.
If, as some have predicted, this finishes her career, that will be a real shame. She’s done nowt wrong, imo.
Originally posted by @Sadoldgit
I had read his comments many times and still cant find why they could be seen as “sleazy” but then that is only my take.
I’m not surprised you don’t think his sleazy comments were sleazy. Context is everything, and the relevant context is this thread, which is laced with sleaze.
Think you are being unfair on Sue Whistle. Did not realise that you dont get on
!!! Sue wasn’t there, and neither were you! Their last gathering was last week!
And sort your full stops out - I can’t take it!!
Sod the full stops, where was my invite? Is this because I still post on SWF and had not joined this place, as at last week anyway? No loyalty to a founding member i guess
edit: have checked and you obviously dropped the old gaff back in May, quicker than Labour stopped listening to half its voters. I failed to follow the crowd so guess a period of wilderness was to be expected.
Originally posted by @Bucks
Sod the full stops, where was my invite? Is this because I still post on SWF and had not joined this place, as at last week anyway? No loyalty to a founding member i guess.
Yeah it was exactly that Bucks… you’ve got to be in it to win it!
(Full stop fixed)
Originally posted by @Furball
Originally posted by @Sadoldgit
I had read his comments many times and still cant find why they could be seen as “sleazy” but then that is only my take.
I’m not surprised you don’t think his sleazy comments were sleazy. Context is everything, and the relevant context is this thread, which is laced with sleaze.
I guess it is down to how you define sleaze. I’ve not spoken to anyone else who think his remarks were sleazy so it is down to how an individual choses to interpret the remarks. is it because of the age gap? If it was a younger man would the comments still have been sleazy? There are 12 years between my wife and I. If I had married her when I was 28 she would have been 16 and nearly half my age - not acceptable according to Ms Proudman. There were no sexual references in his post. There was no innuendo. There are plenty in this thread aimed at the only woman but that seems ok and what he said not. I know that you will say context and I agree it is different, but I still find it odd that a comment about a picture that contains no sexual content is seen by some as sleaze whilst the same people are happy to be as sleazy as they like with others who in many cases, they havent met. Perhaps it is an age thing?
I brought sex into this because he has been accused of sleazy behaviour. If he had said nice tits I would agree that his comments were sleazy but he didnt, he just complimented her picture.Is it really such a bad thing to pay someone a compliment? He also apologised but was still put through the mill. To try and separate behaviour in out out of business is almost impossible. When I worked for the CPS there were a number of lawyers in house and in Chambers who were married or partners. That can only have started with an element of flirting I would suggest. Over the years I have heard “objective” comments from both males and females in the workplace that went a lot further than Carter-Silk’s comments. A lady lawyer I used to work with was caught snogging a defence lawyer outside the courtroom they were both prosecuting in. Just the other day my wife and some friends commented on the barman (who was at work and therefore in his business environment at the time) as a bit of eye candy. You say she was brave yet this is a barrister who stands up in court and deals with worse stuff on a daily basis. She also has a history as a feminist (nothing wrong with that). You could say brave, I would say opportunist. She could have dealt with it on a one to one basis - as she deals with other barristers in court every day of her life. She could have raised the complaint with the Head of Chambers and he would have been dealt with professionally as anyone who oversteps the mark at work often is - but no she chose to throw him to the wolves of the social media. It could be argued that was the cowardly thing to do as he will now be judged by all and sundry and not in a proper manner through an interneal hearing. I say again, do you think she would have made the same fuss if the barrister who made the comments to her had looked like one of the guys who she hit on on FB? We will never know but she clearly has an issue with age as she mentioned it in her reply.
The female barrister who accused another lawyer of being sexist for admiring her photograph wrote a “vitriolic” email to her elderly grandmother shortly before her death, it has emerged.
Charlotte Proudman, 27, who prompted a fierce debate after publicly shaming barrister Alexander Carter-Silk for allegedly demeaning her , describes herself as “a feminist who supports the liberation of women”.
She was not, however, supportive of her elderly paternal grandmother Edith Bailye, to whom she wrote the offending message.
An acquaintance of Miss Proudman had claimed she wrote a “vicious” letter to Mrs Bailye in which she allegedly accused her of having failed in life. Mrs Bailye died in April last year aged 83.
Charlotte Proudman accused Alexander Carter-Silk of being sexist
Today Miss Proudman’s aunt Lynda Searancke said: “She did write a vitriolic email to her grandmother.
“There are issues on Charlotte’s mother and I don’t want to talk about those because they are nothing to do with me.”
Miss Proudman was born Charlotte Bailye but changed her name several years ago, saying it was to “honour” her maternal grandmother.
Mrs Searancke, of Cinderford, Glos., denied there had been a family feud, though she said she had not seen her niece in “years”.
She said of Miss Proudman’s decision to shame 57-year-old Carter-Silk for complimenting her on a “stunning” picture on the professional network LinkedIn: “I don’t know why she is doing this but it’s OTT.
“I think the whole thing is - that was Charlotte. That wasn’t a considered response. If a gentleman had commented on my photograph, I would have said ‘thank you so much, I’m glad you noticed’.
"I certainly wouldn’t have responded like that. I think it’s totally silly.”
Mrs Searancke added: "If you look at her behaviour, you see what she has calls herself. Proudman is a name she thought up…the only thing I will say is, I think, that is a rather sick joke on feminism.”
Mrs Searancke is Edith Bailye’s daughter and the sister of Miss Proudman’s father Richard Bailye, who died when she was aged four.
So good SOG that you had to say it multiple times!!
LOL sorry, should be sorted now!