Politician accused of being part of 'VIP paedophile' ring

This is a point I made shortly after the first batch of post-Savile cases were heard. It looks like a classic case of being seen to be doing something. In the meantime, some of the most high profile cases have conveniently shuffled off the mortal coil, meaning that justice is unlikely to ever be served in those cases.

It’s a cross party problem too. As you say, the government is dragging its heels. Two of the proposed chairs of the inquiry had massive conflicts of interest. What really needs to happen is for a high profile offender to be charged, brought to court. Perhaps then, some beans will be spilled. Unfortunately, I fear that is the precise reason we haven’t seen any prosecutions.

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Originally posted by @pap

Originally posted by @jet-sounds

I must admit that I haven’t read the whole thread, but as an aside…the police do seem to be rather quick on their feet to prosecute easy targets like popstars of the 70’s and old tv presenters, but rather seem to be dragging their feet somewhat over the political elite…or am I wrong?

This is a point I made shortly after the first batch of post-Savile cases were heard. It looks like a classic case of being seen to be doing something. In the meantime, some of the most high profile cases have conveniently shuffled off the mortal coil, meaning that justice is unlikely to ever be served in those cases.

It’s a cross party problem too. As you say, the government is dragging its heels. Two of the proposed charis of the enquiry had massive conflicts of interest. What really needs to happen is for one of them to be charged, brought to court. Perhaps then, some beans will be spilled. Unfortunately, I fear that is the precise reason we haven’t seen any prosecutions.

Well I don’t don’t really like to get involved in political discussions, because to be perfectly honest, you get shafted no matter who you vote for…I see John Bercow has done alright out of his travel expenses…We’re all in it together!

MY observations of the past 40 odd years…

More than 50 Police operations/investigations in respect of peadophile suspect individuals/ peadophile rings…over recent years.

Many closed down/put away…Many investigating officers past and present up in arms. Many giving information to new enquiries which appear to be phased over many years…when further high profile suspects and victims/witnesses … will have passed on.

Orders from up on high…Very senior officers instructed to curtail investigations… Directed by Politicians/ Cabinet Office/Services MI5/6 etc

Case papers that go missing/some recently discovered when said suspects have passed on. ( recent news reCabinet Office )

National Security…always makes me laugh when that statement is used…

Further laughs/frustration when there are Political red faces in most parties due to various cover ups when current peeps were party to said cover ups…Many Politicians,MI5/6,Pollice Officers,Care Workers,Celebrities… should have been rounded up

in the 70/80s and prosecuted… Not in the Public intrest/National Security etc…Even when there has been a resulted investigation… you might have some of the low lifes facing the music before the case leads to the higher profile peeps and is closed.

It was always a worry for the top peeps when certain Royalty names became suspected or named by other suspects.

Many victims/witnesses gave statements/evidence… to Police enquiry teams in the 70/80/90 etc…so many are repeating what they gave when they were very young persons.

I fully expect further total whitewash with many of the historical and current investigations…that is in respect of living VIP suspects.

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No disrespect to you jet sounds, but people being out of the political process is part of the problem. It’s somewhat fair to say that we get the governments we deserve. General apathy, lack of knowledge in the political process and/or current events, plus the way the public can be shifted onto any item of the media agenda at will all factor in.

It’s not fair to say we get the child rapists we deserve, because children aren’t capable of protecting themselves and don’t get listened to when they try. This week, a former Home Secretary, the boss of all justice in the UK, has been named in the broadsheets. I’ve asked before; what fucking chance did those kids have with that man in place? It was industrial level abuse perverting the very systems designed to protect vulnerable children. Apathy shouldn’t be an option. My big fear is that along with a tip of the iceberg inquiry which wraps everything up in a neat little package, political apathy will be precisely the option that people take.

I think a big problem is that people just don’t know where to direct their political pressure. Switching topics for a bit, most people who moan about immigrants rarely conceive of any action they can take through the political system; they just moan. I’ve a feeling something similar will happen here. Let’s hope not, because if we can’t get pointedly angry on this issue, I reckon we can call time on British civilisation.

The broadsheets now focus on Ted Heath.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/08/04/edward-heath-coverup-bbc-documentary-tim-fortescue_n_7933432.html?1438700894

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I would advise anyone to visit the Huffington Post article that hoofinruth linked, but here is the video from that article.

The Chief Whip there, ably demonstrating the principle that leverage is more important than revelation. Four Police forces are now looking into Heath allegations.

If the allegations are founded, wouldn’t such a person be vulnerable to exactly the same kind of coercion? This was the Prime Minister of a NATO country in the Cold War. Eyes would have been on him, although many of the allegations I have read relate to the care homes on Jersey. Even so, one person alleges a reported assault in 1961. Laughed off by the authorities of the day. It does make you wonder if any of his decisions were compromised.

There needs to be a lot more, and better, evidence re: Heath. It may come, if the appeal has any effect. A worry, though, is that witch hunts are just as bad at covering things up as actual cover ups, because by their sweeping allegations they discredit even the cases where evidence is strong.

A wait-and-see approach, from whatever comes out of this appeal for information, might be better than speculating about all the terrible ‘security’ implications before we know anything.

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The huge problem, historically at least, is that waiting has done no good. Now you’ve got a chief whip, Heath’s chief whip, saying that he would clear up scandals, specifically mentioning scandals with small boys. Fortescue could be lying, of course, but to what end? If he is telling the truth, then he was either a rogue operator, or he had Heath’s approval to employ those tactics.

I’d like to believe that this subject is going to be approached disinterestedly and without prejudice. If that occurs, a big part of that will be down to the victims, who refused to accept the originally proposed chairs or the scope of the inquiries.

Frankly though, I think it’s just too big and too damaging to the establishment for victims to get the fullest measure of justice possible. Remaining positive, these names have shifted off the blogs and into the broadsheets and active police investigations.

As you say, wait and see, but I reckon we need to re-evaluate quite a lot of decisions if the allegations against these very senior politicians prove to be founded. The potential damage is huge.

When we have the image of Jimmy Savile sitting down every week and entertaining local policeman who cosily protected him along with Savile being a personal friend of Thatcher plus allegations against a former Home Secretary and now a former Prime Minister, it isn’t a huge leap to believe that if you know people in high places you are absolutely bullet-proof.

If I was a politician now I would be ashamed of what has gone on in the Commons and the Lords over the last forty years.

Ashamed that people still have to follow a party line and cover up for past offenders, and ashamed that personal career goals come before the welfare of raped children.

But if I was an extremist PR man looking for radicalised new recruits I would be having a field day cherrypicking the facts and describing the sort of people we are in the UK and what we allow to happen in our free society.

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Lord Janner will be compelled to provide evidence in court during his trial, or face the usual sanctions.

His defence lawyers argued that making him give evidence was “barbaric, uncivilised and inhumane”.

If they believe that, his defence lawyers want locking up.

Someone here must work within the legal system, please tell me, how does a defence lawyer sleep at night when he goes home having just freed someone he knows is a rapist or a murderer?

Yes, it’s a result for your career but morally?..call me old fashioned but I would be very uncomfortable defending people like that on loopholes or technicalities when they are clearly guilty.

(that RB approach is not to be confused with cases where guilt is questionable!)

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I must admit, I found myself in the shoes of the people that had to make their statements. But then, various cases in criminal law are going to disgust the defence brief; one would have to think that a degree of professional detachment is absolutely necessary.

I don’t know how these cases are assigned, and I’m not sure that there is any win for the people defending. The case hasn’t even started yet and his defence team have already tried getting out of it by claiming he is too senile to stand trial, or give evidence. Maybe some will agree with their assessment, but the vast majority of people are going to see it as a tactic to prevent a man with a lot of evidence against him from standing trial.

I see that various sections of the press are now more concerned with the fact that Tom Watson passed on allegations, rather than the substance of the allegations themselves.

Not a smart move by Cameron demanding an apology, imo. If new information comes to light and those allegations are substantiated (much of the material relating to Brittan, including the nature of his resignation from Home Office, is still under wraps) then it puts Cameron in a very dodgy position.

Spot the difference. From Billy Bragg’s FB feed.

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Interesting potential context in the Independent today:-

At the 2006 Labour conference, The Sun’s political editor whispered a verbal billet-doux into Tom Watson’s ear. “My editor will pursue you for the rest of your life,” cooed George Pascoe-Watson. “She will never forgive you for what you did to Tony.”

Watson had just orchestrated the demi-coup which forced Tony Blair to give a departure date, and his chum Rebekah Brooks was livid. Whether the intervening years have mollified her is not clear.

It could be that Watson’s subsequent pursuit of News of the World phone-hacking, which obliged her to resign as News International chief executive and stand trial, softened her heart. Equally, it may not.

Tom Watson is a self regarding bully and egotist.

He should apologise to Leon Brittan’s wife and children

TedMaul, you’ve been around these parts to know that substantiation of bold statements is important, and that one liners belong in Arnie movies of the 80s.

Put some meat on the bones.