:labour: New Old Labour in trouble

Reasonably serious discussion
1841

Originally posted by @cobham-saint

Can I just ask why owning your own home is the be all and end all of everything?

As far as I can see everyone had been hoodwinked by the Govt and the mortgage and building industries.

Renting at appropriate and sustainable levels used to be the norm. Thatcher seems to have unleashed the beast and greed and avarice is now the new norm.

It never used to be, and it isn’t the case in Europe either.

The most common criticism of renting is that it’s “dead money”., one that is helped by very high rents. I listened to this week’s Football Ramble, in which they focused on the apartment woes of one of their presenters. He’s paying 1450 a month for a converted office where mushrooms grow on the bathroom floor.

It’s not really that difficult to see why owning your own house became a perceived panacea. The Tories were introducing right-to-buy, bigged up home ownership hugely and shat on the idea that paying a meagre sum for rent was a good thing, if you never got to own it.

It worked very well for the people of the time. Not so well for those that had to deal with the aftermath.

The reality is that everything is temporary for mere mortals.

1 Like
1842

I don’t see owning a home as the be all and end all of everything, but 600 pcm in rent indefinitely versus 600 pcm in mortgage payments for 15-20 years is a bit of a no brainer really. As Pap said, rent is dead money - although I do like the flexibility that it gives. I picked up my life and moved to another country 2 years ago and it was as simple as packing some suitcases and booking flights - having a property with a mortgage does anchor you in that respect.

1 Like
1843

Fuck off. I wouldn’t live off Tesco land like some pikey. I’d live off land from Waitrose.

9 Likes
1844

There’s also

  1. Landlords being able to boot you out at any time

  2. Landlords not taking responsibility for fixing problems with the house. A French colleague of mine from my old work had to nip round to her mate’s place just to take showers for the first week or two thanks to a dodgy London slumlord not fixing the place

  3. Dodgy neighbours. A couple living downstairs (same landlord) at my girlfriend’s old place in Wandsworth tried to get her group kicked out by constantly complaining of (non-existant) noise & disturbance in an effort to be enough of a nuisance (together with the fact they had a baby) to get a council flat. Their efforts also included coming storming round and the bloke encouraging one of the bigger lads in my gf’s group of friends to “come on then, hit me!”.

  4. Landlords jacking the rent up

  5. Not being able to redecorate or improve the place

  6. Worrying about losing your deposit (which could easily be a good £1200-1500 -odd in London incase you ‘damage’ something - needless to say landlords will do all they can to ‘do’ you for something in this regard)

The shortage of housing and demand for rental property doesn’t just increase demand, competition and prices, it puts the cards squarely in the hands of the rentiers to such an extent that they can get away with murder knowing full well that any tenant dutifully paying their rent can be effortlessly replaced with another if they kick up too much of a fuss. Likewise the tenants know that anywhere half-decent to rent that’s just about tolerable is something you’re going to have to dig your claws into after well and truly sucking things up.

The rental market in London is an utter feudal system.

5 Likes
1845

https://www.byline.com/column/11/article/1177

Anyone seen this piece btw? ‘The Truth About Jeremy Corbyn’

1846

I haven’t seen it, but I’ve read it now.

His biggest beef seems to be this:-

On the 10th of June, I tweeted that I was disheartened by “his anonymity, lack of passion and refusal to engage meaningfully”. I got my first burst of aggressive pro-Corbyn responses in return and this began to worry me. I genuinely could not think how such a statement was even controversial.
The result of the referendum turned my disappointment into anger and when Jeremy Corbyn, on the morning after, stood on the Westminster green and announced that “we must respect that result and Article 50 has to be invoked now” my anger turned to hostility.

It doesn’t ring true with reality or the rest of his account.

In hindsight, Corbyn played a fucking blinder on the EU. 2/3rds of his own supporters voted Remain, which is slightly less than his own constiuency, but shitloads more than most of his rebel MPs managed in their own, very safe constituencies.

At the heart of the Corbyn/EU issue, you have to reconcile two hugely conflicting statements.

  1. Jeremy is unelectable
  2. Jeremy should have been crucial in the EU vote.

How the fuck to people expect him to achieve 2) if he’s incapable of 1)?

If he’s unelectable, then surely that implies that he can’t bring voters to him. Why would you expect such a man to be decisive in the EU referendum?

I reckon Jezza had a better understanding of the wishes of the British people than most. The 7/10 stance was completely justified; he lied to no-one during the campaign.

And yet, the expectation is that he should have lied. Stood on platforms with lying Conservatives, helping them to save their party while destroying his.

The people voted. They did so using the facts available to them and their faculty for processing them. Andreous’ point only works if everyone is as EU-friendly as he is.

1847

Good points S_M.

I have a number of issues with buying & here’s a couple about why I question why people feel they must buy:

  1. where people take out mortgages on leasehold properties when they never really own their home in the long term

  2. buying in a block of flats (see above - but why would you effectively "buy thin air)

  3. buying new builds that are not made to last the distance (confirmed by someone I know who is developer.

  4. Why has the Govt allowed the buy to let market develop in such an unregulated way, where rents are becoming more and more expensive & tenants are unable to afford market rates - which goes back to why are councils not allowed to build quality public housing to be rented at affordable rates?

Shit, I’m turning into Pap…soz.

:lou_wink:

2 Likes
1848

Seriously, don’t worry about turning into me.

Worry about turning into Furbs, His stuff on TSW aimed at GB right now is both seriously offensive, and seriously amusing to anyone that has met this Goatish Boy,

Furbs has pretty much been undone by the culture we’ve established here. It’s fuck all like he accuses us of. I’m well aware that not all of us have met, but many of us have met Goatboy,

It’s a real shame that Lou is not around, As someone that has both been a fan of the Furb’s work and has met GB enough times to certify that GB is not a racist or anti-semitic cunt, her input would have been much welcomed.

1849

Just read that on the other side - a classic example of why many people stay off there.

It’s not a debate, it’s a waiting room rant at a mental health unit.

2 Likes
1850

Verbal has left a few marbles behind.

1851

Anyway, I thought he had foresaken TSW and here forever on pain of death from his wife

1852

I get this image of verbal shuffling around, muttering: “jew-hater”, 'cultist" under his breath at every passer-by, dribbling down his New Labour t-Shirt and wiping his eyes with his Tony Rosette.

But hey, what do I know? I’m just an anti-semitic, thick, peurile, sexual predator with an inflated sense of my own intelligence and I obviously shouldn’t be questioning the mega-brain that is Verbal. :lou_lol:

5 Likes
1853

Originally posted by @Goatboy

I get this image of verbal shuffling around, muttering: “jew-hater”, 'cultist" under his breath at every passer-by, dribbling down his New Labour t-Shirt and wiping his eyes with his Tony Rosette.

But hey, what do I know? I’m just an anti-semitic, thick, peurile, sexual predator with an inflated sense of my own intelligence and Ial obviously shouldn’t be questioning the mega-brain that is Verb. :lou_lol:

Well he should be brought in for questioning by either the NHS or somebody before he harms himself or others by the sound of it.

1854

Funnily enough, he hasn’t mentioned this episode again. Maybe she’s still in London giving him ‘space’ for his enormous intellect.

1855

I remember the days when I used to get the piss ripped out of me for suggesting he might be a paid influencer.

That would be better, wouldn’t it?

1856

You didn’t mention his missus getting slipped a finger again did you mush?

1857

He’s just being a dick. For someone who wants their profile kept so secret he’s very forward in making allegations on others.

1858

Just saw your post, Cherts.

I reckon you’ll be banned by the end of the day.

1859

Don’t really agree with this as we are in between buying. Will be ready to buy in a couple of years again, but at the moment we rent privately. We do not want to drain the council houses from people that really need the help.

We have always rented privately and have rented many places.

So I am torn on this issue, but do believe people on housing benefit should be putting that money back to the council housing to keep it in the system. But if you want to rent privately with your own earned cash then you should have the choice.

We also had 2 houses up to this time 2 years ago and the one in Southampton was my pension.

1860

Yep, that ought to do it

Also expect the third coming on here with a liberal dose of “sick fucking reptile” accusations