My/labours stream not working. Do you have a link?
Is on BBC News channel
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cheers, found it.
Christ, Owen Smith sounds like a fucking whining teenager.
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Just watched the debate. I said I thought the contests would be fascinating, and they are that, but was that really a contest?
Owen Smith had two basic avenues of attack, claim that nothing would be done if they did not get elected and attack Corbyn or his supporters. That was really it.
There was little vision. Just as it was in 2012 when I joined, when Blairite opposition consisted of “ooh, look at how shit that Tory policy is, let’s repeal it”, Owen Smith spent much of his other time just doing that, not articulating a vision for how he would significantly change the country.
Even the one “concrete” proposal (he used that word a lot) he had was in fact, something John McDonnell had mentioned ages ago - investment. His worst moment, and it will lose him Labour voters, was the repeat of the smear that anti-semitism didn’t exist before Corbyn came along. As Corbyn countered, most of the cases under investigation pre-date Corbyn’s election as leader. He also said Labour was “too slow” to react to the claims, when the Party actually set up an independent inquiry quicksmart. Astoundingly, his initial “zero tolerance” boom (he does the Welsh boom alright) seemed to suggest that he was going to bung people out of the Party on suspicion. He moderated that position when Corbyn pointed out that due process and investigations might be good things, and got heckled by the crowd who termed the affair as a witch-hunt. I agree with them.
The man cannot hold a position for five seconds. In one response, he actually says that we shouldn’t just go with slogan politics like “anti austerity”, only to use “pro prosperity”, a slogan, not three seconds afterwards. I’m not sure what he’s supposed to be; a joke, an insult to the intelligence or a giant fuck you from the Rebels. “Here you go, Trots. Try running the party with this bloke saying he can lead it”.
He implores the audience three times that something is the truth, actually shouting it when he’s re-smearing the Labour Party with the anti-semitism charges.
That is not a good look - and whatever your opinion on Corbyn, something he’d never have to do.
Corbyn was very good, but not perfect. I think there were a few parts of the debate where he probably had more to say, but nearly everything he said went down well, and on the few occasions he got heckled by someone, it was usually a lone voice. Smith was repeatedly heckled on home turf, and justifiably so. Labour members will put up with a difference of opinion. They won’t put up with being repeatedly lied to.
Corbyn’s answers went much deeper, demonstrating a more nuanced understanding of the multiple factors that lead to inequality. A great example he used were careers that were seen as gender specific, a problem that happens from school, and ensures that more men get into high paying jobs simply because they’re more encouraged to go for them.
When members of the audience did interject, Corbyn addressed them directly. He easily won the debate, and apart from one or two people, surely hardcore Smith fans, won the audience too. There was something really weird going on with that audience as well. When the Labour stream was up, you could see the physical reaction of the audience. About 10-15% Smith clappers, yet the noise was just as loud as anything else.
I pointed this out on Twitter and asked if Smith had hired “pro” clappers @ 8.25UKP and hour, his minimum wage (0.75 less than Tories 2020 promise, kids).
The feed went down shortly thereafter.
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I watched 2nd half of that, it was clear win for beard imo.
I thought beards ideas & policies was v.appealling superficially, but scary disaster when you think through the consequences.
The other bro only had one policy, and that was it’s no good having policys if ur not in government. It is good point, but if he’s insinuating that he would win election, he would be wrong.
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Yeah, the thing that comes to mind if i think of Smith’s performance is Mr Shouty.
A confused man that has grasped onto one slogan. That’s his home advantage gone. Going to get harder for him now i think.
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The problem he’s got is that he’s so overtly inauthentic. His entire strategy is about convincing people that Jeremy Corbyn is unelectable, yet he’s demonstrated very little authenticity in anything he’s saying.
If the audience doesn’t believe him when he says he doesn’t believe in slogans (before using one) or much of anything else, why should they, or by extension the wider voting public, believe him when he says he’s more electable? He’s almost everything voters rejected about Labour personified.
And let’s not forget, Corbyn kept the gloves on. The Tory press will eviscerate this amateur before you can say “Flip Flop”, and they’ll say a lot worse.
The thing I wrote about him not being a serious candidate, and just being a wrecker, doesn’t look any less convincing on this evidence.
did read your article and i can see what you’re saying, but do you honestly believe they will follow this path. It would take another year of acting like cunts (as far as the majority of the membership would see it) and then putting up someone who will surely be even more despised. They would have nowhere to hide from accusations of doing the tories job for them.
Corbyn came across very confidently, but he does need more good press exposure and as much as i hate it, he does need some short catchy slogans(targeted advertising). Unfortunately these are the things that get noticed by the majority.
I reckon we Corbyn supporters have been a touch too self-congratulatory on the issue of the people that eventually emerged as challengers.
This is their best?
I’m sure most of us asked. I think we can all agree that this is not their best. This is the best for the present circumstance, one in which they know they lost once Corbyn wouldn’t quit.
Where are the big RW hitters? They are conspicuously absent from this race because they know they’ve lost it. Their best hope is an erosion of the mandate that Corbyn received last year, something less than the 60% that he got last year.
They don’t need Smith to win to do that. They just need to sow as much doubt as possible. I don’t even think you can call the debate a success on that basis, but he tried, bless him.
I think the membership will really turn on them if they do. They have to accept the result or be demonised for ever. The country needs a united opposition now not in another year.
I want Corbyn and the whole of the plp to be constantly mentioning things like the fact that the workers share of GDP has fallen from over 65% to under 50%. This is the sort of statement the public sit up and notice. Keep repeating it and ask people how they feel about it.
There’s really two bits to the membership, which is part of the problem.
It’s tempting to say old and new, but that really isn’t satisfactory, and just feeds into the entryism claims of Labour’s right wing. There have been Corbyn supporters in Labour, or at least those that subscribe to his values, forever. They’ve just been quiet - told to keep schtum by the “winning” faction of the party. That worked as long as they won.
Really, most of the issues between members come down to one thing - the approach required to get into government.
Blairites, relying on past glories which have failed to work, say theirs is the only way, that the party must court people in Nuneaton and Warrington South - focus the whole campaign on bringing over those all important floaters, on the issues you think they care about.
I don’t dismiss the importance of those seats. I’ve banged on for years about the fact that 150 constituencies effectively decide the balance of the country. They have to be won. I just think that is possible, and indeed preferable, to do that without focusing on the very narrow band of voters they actually want to win.
Labour needs a bigger plan than the one its tried twice before, which was effectively to conduct the bulk of campaigning in these key swing seats, taking their traditional core voter for granted. I still want us to win the marginals, but I’d like to see them voting Labour because they believe in the policies, not because they’ve had the bulk of Labour activists descend on their important territory. People in Warrington South and Nuneaton should _already _be thinking about voting Labour before anyone tries to convince them.
And that really, is the main difference. One group sees placating the floaters as the only way to get anything done. The other thinks you get those floaters by creating policy that appeals to a huge amount of people, including those in the marginals. To me, there’s little doubt as to which side is right. We cannot keep making national policy based on the changing interests of a subset of the population.
Luvin’ how Owen Smith is coming in third in a two horse race
Agree that it has to be a campaign for the whole country. As you say people will come on-board if you can show them how badly they are being Treated and the real causes. As for the right, personally i have never understood how they belong in the labourer party( walks like a tory, sounds like a tory, looks like a tory, is a fucking tory).
As i mentioned above, keep pointing out the inequality and ask people how they feel about it. This will get the votes of the working class.
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Smug and self congratulatory is never a good look.
Isn’t the first one clapping his dad?
Then the rest of the family join in. Wouldn’t we all feel an obligation if it was our son/husband/dad.
Might just be fear that compelled the women! Can we have an a smiley face with a black eye?
Disagree. Think it looks excellent if you can pair if with the right little number.
And that is a right little number, in many senses 
Another High Court battle on Monday, not that it has been in the news that much.
This’ll be the bid to get new members the vote.
Hot on the heels of Camerons honours for mates scandal, JC has requested that Chakrabati is ennobled presumabley as a reward for sweeping the anti-semitism inquiry under the carpet.
Jeremy, you really have a knack for setting yourself up for the media to have a pot shot