I would vote for Agent Smith anyway. He seems forthright and robust, and you won’t catch him sitting on any fences. He certainly wouldn’t send a man to do a machine’s job.
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Sarah Champion has unresigned.
That nasty old bully was good enough to reinstate her as well.
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Well, we’d be disappointed if Sarah Champion’s unresignation didn’t come in a negative spin version. Lordy. Note that the rebels never put their name to anything.
One Labour MP today suggested she had been pressured by local trade union activists into retracting her resignation.
The backbencher said: "Different MPs react to the intimidation and bullying of trade unions in different ways. That’s their choice but it’s not intelligent to believe that the public and the electorate do not see these games for what they are and they will form a view when asked.
"The entire Corbyn leadership is about only one thing: keeping people in jobs that they could otherwise never get. It’s a job creation scheme for the politically unemployable, including at the top of certain trade unions. The trade off for these ordinarily unemployable people - including the leader and Shadow Chancellor - is the destruction of the Labour party and, in all likelihood, the trade union movement.
"The theory is, if you’re connected, you’ll be ok. But deep down they know that the clock is ticking and when this is done, they will be lucky to find work on a conspiracy theorist circular. In the meantime, they intend to milk the party, the unions and members’ subs for every penny.
“Some MPs can be forgiven for feeling frightened, thinking about local party finances, deselection and more in that context.”
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This interview has been variously described as “car crash” and “ooh, Owen Smith is Prime Minister material”.
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What is the point of Labour replacing someone unelectable with someone unelectable?
I don’t agree with the first part of your question, and neither do the election results btw, but do find myself in agreement on the last point.
I’m not really buying anything Owen Smith is selling. Most of it is just stuff he’s nicked off Corbyn’s stall, and I’ve never really believed this is about stopping Corbyn because he’s Corbyn. Genuinely think its more to do with the policies he’s looking to implement, which let’s not forget, will hit a lot of portfolios, and will likely end much of our military adventurism and/or spending.
Most of that interview was spent slagging other Labour Party members off. I think he might have attacked the Tories twice in the whole thing. I suppose the scariest thing for the Labour rebels is that after all of the messing, Owen Smith is the best they can conjure. He really doesn’t hold up to scrutiny.
He’s also Welsh. I know Tony Blair is technically Scottish, being born in Edinburgh and all, but he was culturally English. You have to go back a long way to find a “non-English leader” of a party that won a general election. I think David Lloyd George may well be the last (technically English, culturally Welsh).
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That’s the first I’ve seen of him and I thought he came across fairly well on most issues.
Interesting that he won’t accept that the majority voted for us to leave the Single Market and reduce our trade - that was very clear in the build-up.
Why does he think we can change those terms now?
The country spoke, that deal is done.
Well, I’ve watched it papster, and I’d say it wasn’t a car crash in any way, shape or form.
He came across really well. He’s an excellent communicator, but he lost me at advocating 2% defence expenditure and the renewal of trident - this after having been a CND activist in his teens. I wouldn’t trust him.
Thought he handled the accusations over his stance on the privatisation of the NHS well.
He made some excellent criticisms of Corbyn - if you want to appeal to mainstream conservative (small c) Labour voters - that he’s not patriotic, not nationalistic, not in touch with the identity felt by the individual countries in the Union.
Thought he did well to position John McDonnell as a machiavellian figure pulling the strings.
I would say that he would be a better front man for a party than Corbyn in today’s media-fed, political world. But I’d also imagine that we’ll see him crop up in the Lib Dems or perhaps any other party if he is ousted following a Corbyn victory. I get the sense that it’s about him and not what he can do for others.
I also have to say that I like James O’Brien a lot and I’ve seen him take interviewees to meet their maker many times, but I felt he gave Smith a gentle time there.
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O’Brien is excellent - if you are a dodgy politician you wouldn’t want to be on the wrong end of one of his grillings.
It’s a general election vote loser, or at the very least, a surefire way to piss off a sizable proportion of 17m people (the ones that aren’t rubbing their eyes complaining of being tricked, that is).
He’s counting on appealing to the 2/3 of Labour voters that voted Remain. Short term and likely destructive strategy. Most of those voters also believe in democracy.
Originally posted by @saintbletch
Well, I’ve watched it papster, and I’d say it wasn’t a car crash in any way, shape or form.
An article I read describes it as having a lot of swerves, not least over the issue of Sarah Champion returning to the fold.
You can find plenty of swerve right there. After trying everything to assert that it was the PLP that was important, and that members didn’t matter, it’s now the reverse situation.
Techically, he may well be correct. The membership he’s relying on remember the PLP rebels trying to keep Jeremy off the ballot.
He came across really well. He’s an excellent communicator, but he lost me at advocating 2% defence expenditure and the renewal of trident - this after having been a CND activist in his teens. I wouldn’t trust him.
Sounded like a whining bastard to my ears.
Thought he handled the accusations over his stance on the privatisation of the NHS well.
He made some excellent criticisms of Corbyn - if you want to appeal to mainstream conservative (small c) Labour voters - that he’s not patriotic, not nationalistic, not in touch with the identity felt by the individual countries in the Union.
Thought he did well to position John McDonnell as a machiavellian figure pulling the strings.
Which speaks to my point earlier. Where is the policy? This is simply a continuation of his smear campaign in a slightly milder form, isn’t it?
It’s not even something that hasn’t been tried before. Day one, the tabloids were pulling JC on his supposed patriotism.
He can talk, sure. Emptiest vessels often make the most noise.
I would say that he would be a better front man for a party than Corbyn in today’s media-fed, political world. But I’d also imagine that we’ll see him crop up in the Lib Dems or perhaps any other party if he is ousted following a Corbyn victory. I get the sense that it’s about him and not what he can do for others.
I also have to say that I like James O’Brien a lot and I’ve seen him take interviewees to meet their maker many times, but I felt he gave Smith a gentle time there.
Think O’Brien was behaving himself a bit last night, but got him subtly on a few things.
“Labourism?”
I just don’t see a car crash in the interview in isolation.
I think he was right on Sarah Champion. One swallow, a summer doth not make. Thought O’Brien could have pushed more on the “how many unresignations would it take for the whole basis of you standing to be undermined?”. I would have pushed him to put a number on it - then I think you would have seen a swerve.
I see a consummate political communicator*. I don’t agree with some of the things he stands for, but he came across pretty well.
It’s always dangerous to think that you speak for others, so with that caveat, I think he’ll appeal well to mainstream Labour voter (since the Blair project) - think Lou, think Furball.
He may sound like a whining bastard to you, but you’re pretty heavily invested in a 180 degree opposed stance. Take that hat off for a minute, if you’re able, how do you think he would have come across to the mainstream Labour voter - if there is such a thing anymore.
Nothing I’ve seen changes anything for me, and just because he came across OK in a single Newsnight interview doesn’t change my view of what the result of the vote will be.
I just don’t see too many negatives in that single interview IN ISOLATION. I think the negatives are only there if you’ve sat down to watch it with a bag full of anti-PLP-rebel rotten tomatoes to throw at the TV alongside your popcorn.
I should say that nothing I’ve seen changes my view or stance, I just don’t think it was a bad interview.
* a consummate political communicator is similar, in my mind, to describing someone as a highly effective serial killer.
EDIT: I edited the post to say mainstream Labour voter instead of mainstream Labour member.
I agree he had a bumpy start with the unresignation question but other than that, for the casual viewer at least, it went along incident-free.
I’m happy to concede that Smith _may _appeal to those all important swing voters, but to suggest that either Furball or Lou are mainstream Labour voters is a little absurd.
Furball is obsessed with Corbyn to the point of self-destruction. Lou couldn’t handle Blair being called a liar, and I don’t think has been back since Chilcot was published. You can safely say they’re on the right of the party, but you cannot call them mainstream.
We don’t know what that is right now. It’s what the leadership election is there to establish.
Yeah, that’s fair.
I guess what I should have said was mainstream Labour voters - since the Blair project.
EDIT: I’ve since edited my original post.
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You could argue that you are as obsessed with Corbyn as Furball is, albeit from a totally opposing side.
BTW what is a mainstream Labour supporter and why isn’t Lou one?
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Originally posted by @CB-Saint
You could argue that you are as obsessed with Corbyn as Furball is, albeit from a totally opposing side.
Nonsense.
First off, it’s the politics, not the bloke himself that interest me - although I think we do happen to have a particularly decent personification of what as I perceive as Labour values.
Second, I think sir perhaps forgets the lengths our furry friend was willing to go to in order to make his “points”. If he’d made some of those remarks in public, he’d not only lose his votes for abusing fellow Labour members, there’s a good chance he’d be expelled from the party.
For the most part, I criticise politicians based on their record and conduct. His is a scattergun approach which involves smearing everybody in shit, including himself. You’re free to make the suggestion, of course, but it’s one that I utterly reject.
BTW what is a mainstream Labour supporter and why isn’t Lou one?
As I said in my post to bletch, that’s what this leadership election is there to determine. However, most Labour voters utterly washed their hands of Blair. Lou went out to bat for him quite a bit, which in 2015, is unusual - and certainly not a common thing from my observations.
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such lies you wouldn’t criticise corbyn even if he fingered ur wife
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There are plenty of other piling into him at the moment. They don’t need my help.
Besides, it’s really difficult to work out whether he’s doing a bad job or not. The PLP rebels clearly think he is, but I did a speech at my CLP nomination meeting on Friday night (it was at a pulpit and everything, in St Mary’s Church!).
They’ve liked using the boss analogy before. I made the following point at the meeting.I’ve run teams before. There is no way we could have produced anything if my team were actively working against my project and my leadership, especially if there was no way I could replace them.
I was at the launch on Saturday and one of the most encouraging things about the event was seeing others apart from Corbyn powerfully articulate the socialist case. I was impressed with Richard Burgon, and am excited about seeing more passion emerge from the ranks. Realistically Bear, Corbyn is an older fella. I think at the most, he’s got two terms - but probably only one. There’s no point getting involved in short term veneration of one bloke if it all falls by the wayside in a few years. It does actually need to be a social movement to last.
