:labour: New Old Labour in trouble

Reasonably serious discussion
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The exciting thing is that Britain finally has a clear choice. I agree that it’s going to take a lot of cash, but the policy is relatively joined up. Labour have repeatedly indicated that they will collect appropriate levels of taxation from corporations that benefit from our infrastructure and that they’ll print money to create infrastructure (thank fuck for Gordon Brown for that, at least).

Railways are a great example of being able to sell a left-wing policy to the entire electorate. Realistically, it’s a tax, and anything that is taxed should be democratised, especially if the tried and tested alternatives have failed the country.

I like the idea of locally owned energy suppliers too. Initially, it’s just having control of part of the national grid, but as the practice has evolved in Germany, many of the suppliers are investing in carbon neutral energy generation.

Can’t disagree with the arguments on integrating health and social care. The concepts are joined at the hip; cuts in one affect the other.

Lifelong education is going to be a huge winner, both in terms of popularity and reducing insecurity. Makes total sense to me; much better to spend money on getting someone productive again. Much better than paying for their dole, paying people to check that they’ve been looking for work, pay people to check that they’re not really working on the side, paying people to prosecute those who are.

Universal childcare will probably end up paying for itself, especially when combined with lifelong learning opportunities. It’ll allow parents that couldn’t normally go to work to attend, and it’ll also free up a shitload of disposable income for those paying through the nose for it now.

Trade union act is shite and needs to go, fixed pay ratios should put some brakes on widening inequality. The living wage dividend idea is genius. I know shareholders will still be able to profit from price fluctutations, but most like the dividend payments as well. Any firm paying less than the living wage is normally going to be instantly less attractive to a potential investor. The slight danger with that is that firms move elsewhere, but it’s not like that isn’t happening anyway, and I’m not sure we’d want those people as employers.

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I’m no Corbyne fanboy by any stretch of the imagination and will be voting to stay part of the EU. But, for all the benefits that globalisation has brought us, one looks at the demise of the steel industry (more layoffs at Port Talbot announced http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-35339153) and wonders…

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For all the bluster about Trident, there doesn’t seem to be a great deal of consideration for other military matters, like where your means of production might be. In the highly unlikely event that we go to war with China, are we going to get our steel from them?

Huge gaps in the economy right now, which will be incredibly difficult to get back without working knowledge of the processes involved.

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Genius from Mr Boyle here.

The Labour party has, from the beginning, been made up of diverse factions; that’s its beauty – asking it to become cohesive is like trying to find one shampoo that will care for the hair of everybody in Angelina Jolie’s house. Until recently, Labour politicians have been scared to tell anyone their opinions as they had to have one that appealed to every single person in the country. Under Ed Miliband the current manifesto would just say: “Good Adele’s back, isn’t it?” A certain nostalgia in the parliamentary party is inevitable: it’s hard to deny Blair helped to create a powerful movement. Unfortunately that movement was Islamic State.

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Old criticism of Corbyn; “he’ll never appeal to those middle class voters”.

New criticism of Corbyn; “too many of the new Labour members are middle class”

:lou_sunglasses:

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Simon Danczuk, arch critic of Corbyn, is in yet more hot water.

Labour MP Simon Danczuk has been accused of claiming thousands of pounds in expenses for children he rarely sees.

He last night admitted he “never read the rules” relating to a parliamentary allowance and said he would return the money if the mistake is his.

Mr Danczuk, 49, insisted he had checked whether he could claim the money with the MPs’ watchdog, the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority.

Mr Danczuk told the Sunday Mirror: “If they insist I will pay it back. But I stayed within the rules.”

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They call themselves Labour.

LAST week, the so-called Labour “moderates” let the cat out of the bag. Cheerleader-in-chief for the Corbyn-haters Dan Hodges, a former union official who claims he “writes about Labour with tribal loyalty,” helpfully revealed in the Torygraph their current thinking on May’s mayoral election.

“We keep talking to each other about fighting hard for Sadiq, and secretly we’re all thinking ‘but I hope he loses’,” an unnamed Labour MP admitted to him.

Hodges clearly agrees — his piece is headlined: “Sadiq Khan winning in London will be bad news for the Labour Party.”

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-0ee8-So-called-Khan-conundrum-is-just-sabotage

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Dan Hodges is basically a slightly more articulate Barry Sanchez.

“I am Labour, honest. It’s just all I do is snipe and complain about them to my right-wing employers, and tell them all the things they want to hear about how bad Labour are. This means I am true Labour.”

That said, didn’t he recently make a big public showing of handing back his membership?

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Yes he did.

He effectively said “I am leaving forever”*.

* For the second time.

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Cute.

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Look out Gay, the party of the common man wants to put up taxes in Scotland, including the basic rate. But it will then introduce a new benefit for those on £20k or less. We need a more complex tax system for sure. If you are on more than £20k you pay more. Very progressive.

edit: I probably should have waited until after the Pap and Lou “chat” tonight. Crap. Helmets on

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I wonder if the SNP will have the neck to challenge this.

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So maybe not so bad.

Labour_storm_to_victory_in_Crompton_by_election/

Increased lead in lower Stoke ward Coventry and maintained in Cranford Hounslow.

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Ouch.

If you’re a part of the right wing of the Labour Party, look away now. In fact, don’t bother, you probably lack the self awareness to even realise it…

…

The Labour Party has, of course, always been a broad church and it should continue to be so. A place where Heffer and Callaghan, Benn and Healey resided in prominent positions despite vastly contrasting views. It should be the natural home for those of a left/centre left persuasion. The election of Tony Blair as leader in the mid 90s, following on from the ‘reforms’ of political pygmy Neil Kinnock, saw a sharp change of direction into centre right territory and beyond.

A line often trotted out by the Labour right is, “yeah, but Blair won 3 elections.” Well, the Blair years, after a promising start, were a hopeless let down and, worse than that, have caused lasting damage to the UK. There were very marginal improvements to the lives of ordinary people but they were offset by a catastrophic illegal war (the Blairite ostriches still can’t come to terms with its illegality) and a blind eye and deaf ear to shocking financial sector chicanery. Blair and his bunch of insubstantial, vacuous sycophants had a hotline to the rich and powerful but let down an awful lot of people. History will not be kind to Tony Blair and his “Tell em’ anything, lets just get into fuckin power” approach to politics.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/phil-jones/labour-right_b_9196424.html

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Originally posted by @pap

Ouch.

If you’re a part of the right wing of the Labour Party, look away now. In fact, don’t bother, you probably lack the self awareness to even realise it…

…

The Labour Party has, of course, always been a broad church and it should continue to be so. A place where Heffer and Callaghan, Benn and Healey resided in prominent positions despite vastly contrasting views. It should be the natural home for those of a left/centre left persuasion. The election of Tony Blair as leader in the mid 90s, following on from the ‘reforms’ of political pygmy Neil Kinnock, saw a sharp change of direction into centre right territory and beyond.

A line often trotted out by the Labour right is, “yeah, but Blair won 3 elections.” Well, the Blair years, after a promising start, were a hopeless let down and, worse than that, have caused lasting damage to the UK. There were very marginal improvements to the lives of ordinary people but they were offset by a catastrophic illegal war (the Blairite ostriches still can’t come to terms with its illegality) and a blind eye and deaf ear to shocking financial sector chicanery. Blair and his bunch of insubstantial, vacuous sycophants had a hotline to the rich and powerful but let down an awful lot of people. History will not be kind to Tony Blair and his “Tell em’ anything, lets just get into fuckin power” approach to politics.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/phil-jones/labour-right_b_9196424.html

So, do the Huff believe that Labour were, or were not fiscally and economically irresponsible in the Parliament? I’m sure I’ve heard them say differently in the past (when it’s suited them).

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I’m not sure you can infer any groupthink from the opinion of one chap, Cherts - especially when he did not mention the point you’re making.

The whole thing is clearly an opinion piece giving the right of the party a verbal dressing down.

How did you get from that to what the Huffington Post “believes”?

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Pap you must be wounded after that attack on the neo liberals.

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Originally posted by @Barry-Sanchez

Pap you must be wounded after that attack on the neo liberals.

Hello J:Law.

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Pppppppppppaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Belter.