Oh they’re still about. I have had some arguments with socialist worker party members. Fun times.
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This was in Venezuela, so lots of people from all over Latin America who know how to party.
We stayed in a small little town (newly built social housing) for a few days. There were parties each night with Venezuelan soldiers serving the drinks. During the day we’d head into Caracas for lots of talks etc.
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Anti semetic or just anti Israel. He has a history of enjoying innocent people being killed in the context of progress, but is it that bad?
Hodge gives the game away to even the dumbest of people.
Labour MP Margaret Hodge said the only way Mr Corbyn can “put this issue to bed” was to adopt the internationally agreed definition in full.
So he’s ok if he does as he’s told by a foreign apartheid state?
He was involved (maybe, he can’t remember) in a wreath ceremony for the Munich massacre perpetrators. Maybe it wasnt so bad when he was a firebrand lunatic backbencher. Now he wants to become Prime Minister, so yes it is a big problem particularly when set against this antisemitism issue he can’t kill off
I vote anti-Israel.
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We’ll see.
I think the only people that’ll be convinced are those who are already never going to vote for him. Good to see him taking a stand.
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“Ceremony for the perpetrators”.
Are you sure, because the DM will only dare say “seen near” and the BBC say the same.
It’s quite amazing what people will believe.
No one’s commenting on the leader of a foreign Apartheid state trying to openly influence our political system with lies though. Strange that, when you consider the furor over supposed Russian influence regarding Brexshit.
Where’s the outrage for Bibi the butcher?
Propaganda is alive and working very well in this country.
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When you strive for peace, you make some unpalatable aquaintances.
But if you can cut through the emotion that will simply keep you in a cycle of death, it often gets you to a better place.
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I’m not sure now @pap.
And the problem with that is that he needs to convince the people that weren’t going to vote for him to do exactly that if he’s ever going to be PM.
I fear the coordinated besmirching of Corbyn is so well planned, so well executed, so constant that it’s damaging the chances of those that would come over to the movement.
Just as Corbyn seemingly got on top of the allegations of antisemitism and put forward a plan, and just as that seems to have quelled the questions from moderates and those outside of the Jewish community, The Mail share these pictures with the world.
But I feel that even this angle of the story is defensible to those that want to be convinced, but the problem isn’t the allegations being made now, it will be the way he’s appeared to handle.
You simply have to take your hat off to people to, and I can’t come up with a better word, the establishment, that we can be led morsel by morsel to the conclusion they want us to reach.
Forget now that some Labour colleagues and some media outlets have tried to portray him as an antisemite or a terrorist sympathiser, because I hope most people will see through that, but what will have damaged him and what will have stuck is the portrayal of him as a ditherer and of someone not even in control of his own party.
I saw him refuting the allegations that he had laid a wreath to terrorists yesterday and he looked flustered and shifty in his answers.
If that struck me, a supporter, then it will surely have hit home with those that are to be convinced.
And that is a criminal shame that makes me angry.
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That is, in my mind, the major problem with Corbyn. He is absolutely hopeless at handling a crisis. He prevaricates, he dithers, he mumbles meaningless platitudes without doing anything tangible about it. Not just on this anti semitism stuff (which I don’t believe he is), his leadership is littered with mishandled problems that have exacerbated the issue at hand.
Putting his politics to one side, that alone worries me if he ever had to hand a crisis whilst leading the government.
Well he definitely admitted he was there.
He definitely admitted there was a wreath laying ceremony which included some of those that were killed in Paris 91 (Munich terroists)
He is pictured holding the wreath and praying
And he cannot categorically deny he was not involved. (I don’t think I was involved)
It doesn’t look good.
But how many fingers were actually touching the wreath?
Yeah - actually on second glance he is obviously trying to push the thing away from himself, so as not to get involved, and the picture where his hands are up turned when everyone was praying - he was just checking to see if it was raining!!
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But I’d contend that you’re seeing Corbyn through a lens that is rarely applied to other politicians.
You’ve reached that conclusion by what you’ve been fed - I will acknowledge that there has certainly been some dithering and a reluctance to discipline some, but not to the degree we’re being shown and not for the reasons we might think.
Other politicians announce an inquiry and they are left alone to get on with it. Not Corbyn.
If pushed, other politicians say that it would be wrong to pre-empt the inquiry and are left alone to get on with it. Not Corbyn.
Instead, he is front page lead for months and has the ditherer tag successfully applied to him.
I will also acknowledge that for the longest time Labour believed it was OK to simply be right on the issue of the antisemitism definition. And they still do - as do I.
But to play politics in 2018 being right isn’t enough against a coordinated attack like this, you have to be seen to bow to the court of public opinion - or you have to be allowed to kick something into the long grass.
For a man so principled (IMO) and with such a long history of support for the struggles of Palestinians, getting Corbyn to row back on those changed antisemitism examples and therefore wrap the Israeli government in an invincibility cloak of blurred antisemitism definitions will be difficult.
Is that dithering?
Maybe. But what is the alternative?
…instead, he implements the full examples from the “internationally recognised” definition of antisemitism and from that point onwards neuters the Labour Party’s legitimate right to criticise Israel and its oppression of Palestinians and non-Jewish people in Israel?
That’s not the man, and that’s why many believe he is a different breed of politician.
Ditherer or man of principle?
Maybe he is such a different breed that he is always going to be an easy target for this sort of attack, but he does not sell out his principles. He holds on to them, never concerned that he is the only person defending a cause.
So to ask him to do a volte-face on this is unlikely to happen. And to expect his detractors to back off is equally unlikely to happen because those that set the agenda, those that define why you and I are having this conversation, see it as more important to defend Israel (because, Jewish people were never a target here), help rebels in the Labour party to have a voice they would otherwise not have and ultimately usher in another n years of Tory rule.
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So that’s worse than creating an apartheid state in the holy lands of three separate religions, is it?
Worse than ordering your troops to fire on thousands of civilians, including women and children?
If so, re-arrange the following letters to form a word.
tiespriori
What was going on at the time and what is being reported, just show how manipulative with the truth our msm are.
Shame so many fall for it. It must take an amazing act of faith for anyone to believe them.
Israel and their actions, however abhorrent, are not the issue at hand. This is about Corbyn. Saying, what about Israel is just a deflection tactic and avoiding the issue, which funnily enough is what Corbyn tried to do yesterday.
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About the only thing the Tories have planned well in the last 3 years.
Irrelevant, this isn’t about Israel for the general public. This is about Corbyn and perceived Anti-semitism.
I cannot believe how badly Corbyn and Labour have dealt with this. The Tory party must be laughing their arses off that they just didn’t put this to bed as soon as the first allegations came out. It’s now become such a massive thing that he won’t recover from it.
It’s been said time and time again - he’s too naive and doesn’t know how to play the game. Blair had Campbell. Who has Corbyn got? Diane fucking Abbott.