⚫ Liam Neeson race row ⚪

:black_circle: Liam Neeson race row :white_circle:
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#21

Because the anti fascists are in fact the fascists?


#22

I take your point absolutely. I have no doubt at all that he is no racist, he wouldn’t have lasted in the industry he works in if he was. But to give an interview like this, using the term “Black Bastard” is clearly going to have serious repercussions for him. It is obvious that it will be seized on by the ‘right on’ brigade. He must surely have realized that. He didn’t say he would have done the same thing if it was a "White Bastard’ did he? He is either incredibly stupid, arrogant or naive. Probably a mixture of all three.


#23

Me, that’s not the way to lead a happy life IMO.

And this is where what he did tips towards racism for me - certainly bigoted.

He determined the colour of the skin as an import feature of the attack.

It wasn’t.

That he wanted to punish a black man for the crime of a black man is twisted and meant he had racist thoughts THEN.

However, completely agree with everyone else that is pointing out the nuance of what he is actually saying. He was horrified by his former beliefs. Laudable but naive in the extreme to try to have such a dangerous conversation in public.

And we wonder why celebrities, sportsmen and politicians give vanilla interviews managed by beige PR people - because if you try to have a grown-up conversation about the grey that sits between life’s black and white, then you’ll find someone who will take offence at what you said who will then go on to take offence if others don’t also take offence.

The part of the interview that revealed his stupidity though was that he said that if it had been an Irishman or a Lithuanian that committed the rape, he would have gone to Irish and Lithuanian parts of town to try to get attacked.

That’s not a comparison.

A comparison would have been him saying he wanted to go to the Jamaican quarter or the Nigerian sector. He didn’t select a country for revenge, he selected a skin tone.

Whilst it does take me a while to get a tan, Irish is not a skin tone.


#24

People are always offended, they stifle and close down debate as they don’t like it, they’re the real fascists, the ones who deny an opinion and freedom of speech.


#25

Interview after the fact.


#26

The problem with the ‘free speech’ argument is that its frequently used by those wanting to spread hate, eg have an agenda as opposed to the desire for mature debate of controversial subject matter. Its not very popular to suggest, but we have to acknowledge that their ARE people who too stupid to differentiate, and also those who are easily influenced… and the question then becomes one of whether we should or should not deny a stage for those who are looking to spread such hate amongst those easily influenced by them?

It’s far too simplistic to see it as a simple black or white issue.

We also need to be careful with the rather over liberal use of ‘offence’ caused or otherwise. There are some things that SHOULD offend everyone, racism being one of them, when we see or hear it and are ‘not offended’ then we have to admit we are complicit in making it acceptable.

Other things we should not feel obliged to be offended by… I used to get quite annoyed by those who suggested that Porn was offensive to women… its not, its something that SOME women (and some men) find offensive… there is a difference between the two.

What the means in principle is that if you know someone is offended by something such as Porn, then you dont share it with them or refer to it in there company - that is just being a decent human being… but it does not mean those that enjoy it should be ashamed of something they view in the privacy of their own home etc… But where there big issues that we should be offered by, we should take time to explore it and if proven challenge it.


#27

Free speech is is only free in the best of Countries, most shitholes don’t tolerate such things, or they can say hate as the Bible, Koran and Torah instruct it, wankpuffins.


#28

There’s a couple of sides to it, isn’t there. While it would be great if people were able to be more free in discussing how they’ve become better people and put aside their past prejudices, the people who are offended are the people who might justifiably be offended. In this case people of colour and women. There’s no way of reasonably saying to them, stop taking offence and let the white man have his healing journey.

Because that’s how it’s going to look. A woman got raped and the story is all about Neeson and his spiritual journey. Black people want to talk about racism, but we want to talk about a white man’s journey away from racism. I’m not saying that’s the whole story here, but that’s how it can look. And people taking offence aren’t part of an offence culture, or being the real fascists. They’re the people on the blunt end of prejudice who don’t understand why they don’t get listened to (or are dismissed as part of an offence culture) but the famous white actor man does.

n.b. I know I’m not specifically arguing your points here, Bletch, this turned into a catch-all thread response.


#29

Thing is, I don’t believe Liam when he says that he’d have done the same if it had been a white person. I think he’s saying that to cover his arse now. An arse he’d never even need to cover if he’d kept his trap shut, presumably.

What’s gone on here, subconsciously, is that Mr Neeson has equated an entire race of people with the perpetrator of a heinous crime against a loved one. There is no fucking way that line of thought would have entered his head if the perpetrator had been white.

It’s actually difficult to conjure a more textbook case of racism.


#30

Happens all the time in religious Countries, a minority is supposed to have committed a crime and the next thing there’s lynchings of innocents.


#31

Well interestingly, I’ve spent some time in Liam’s neck of the woods.

The standing joke in NI is that “we in Northern Ireland are too busy being sectarian to be racist”.

However, that’s bollocks, as the Polish found out in Belfast.


#32

It actually probably is sectarian as East Belfast is staunch UDA territory, I doubt this would happen off the Falls.


#33

My son asked why his grandma had said she had “green fingers.”

“It’s just a phrase,” I replied. “When someone is good at gardening, people say they have green fingers. Their fingers aren’t really green.”

He nodded dubiously.

“It’s like when someone gets caught stealing,” I pressed on. “People say they’ve been caught red-handed, but their hands aren’t actually red…they’re black.”


#34

Well, it’s got people talking, which is good.

That’s me done I think.


#35

#36

Is Liam coming round?


#37

I presume you thought that was funny when you typed it.


#38

If that had been the intention I’d have put it on the joke thread. It’s an illustration of the context used when depicting common stereotypes, Neeson is being criticised for more or less implying that black men are rapists, there’s loads of gags around based on the idea that all black people are thieves. Obviously that’s not the case any more than the one about all black guys having massive cocks.


#39

This is a fascinating thread around this theme, that I just read on the Twitters.


#40

Interesting. It sort of explains how post Apartheid Truth and Reconciliation Committee work was positive as it was instigated by the victims of the the racist oppression, and not driven by a desperate need for White South Africans to unburden their ‘shame’

Its a complex issue, because I can fully appreciate the issue of ‘consent’. Yet, should we also not encourage those who have harboured such distasteful thoughts to admit they were wrong? Not through letting them ‘off the hook’ or a cheap ticket to release guilt, but to reinforce the message that it IS/WAS wrong? I dont know…

I thought Neeson was crass and he sounded even more ridiculous on the GMA program…

We will only truly be rid of racism, when the word ‘Race’ becomes lost from language, where we no longer seek to segment human beings on grounds of ethnicity - because that ethnicity is only the result of migration and isolation anyway… we are all the same species and from the origin…

Problem is, many have attached so much ‘cultural’ significance to it now, that its become so important to some folks with respect to their identity… a legacy of the very segmentation and prejudices of the past…

What a fucking heap of shit humans have been and still are - depressing really

Me? I just think the world is full of twats