Seems a fair summary to me, Dennis. Worried?
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If you take American hegemony and NATO membership as immutable concepts.
Which I know you do 
A BRITISH political party, founded over 100 years ago by socialists is âbeing infiltrated by socialistsâ, it has been claimed.
The Labour Party, started in 1900 by self-confessed socialist Keir Hardie, has seen a âsuspiciously large influxâ of people who believe a lot of the same things as he did.
A senior Labour official said: âThese people are clearly very interested in politics, but for some reason they havenât joined the Conservative Party. It would appear they are really into redistribution of wealth, nationalisation and the welfare state. Itâs all very sinister.â
Thatâs very good!
âAlso, I was a member from 1981 until 1994. At that point I decided it wasnât really for me anymore. Something must have happened.â
I thought all you Corbynites were above personal attacks. Iâm neither in favour of American âhegemonyâ nor NATO membership.
Nor am I a Blair supporter, as Iâve made clear many times. However, if you write Blair out of history, that makes the last âproperâ Labour leader to lead the party to electoral victory was Harold Wilson in 1976.
If thatâs not perceived as a problem by Corbynites, then I despair.
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Itâs not really personal, more of an assessment of where you might have agreed with the author. I think weâve certainly disagreed in the past on NATO, although I may be wrong on that front. Regardless, you termed the piece a fair summary, which included some hit slosh on how Corbyn would do the unthinkable and potentially leave the alliance.
Personally, Iâm not entirely sure about NATO in the present day. Putin makes the point that the key decision maker in Europe doesnât have a border with an EU country. Thatâs grandstanding, of course - and who knows what kind of pressure Russia might exert without NATO reining it in. I suspect thatâs a large part of why it still exists.
Itâs a shame that the EU is in the state it is in. Strong, democratic leadership may have put the EU in a position where it could have said âweâll handle our own defence, taâ, potentially allowing relations with Russia to normalise. Thatâs never really going to be possible with the US in the mix. They seem to want to keep a division of some kind, if only to be the gatekeeper between the two parts of the world.
Originally posted by @pap
A BRITISH political party, founded over 100 years ago by socialists is âbeing infiltrated by socialistsâ, it has been claimed.
The Labour Party, started in 1900 by self-confessed socialist Keir Hardie, has seen a âsuspiciously large influxâ of people who believe a lot of the same things as he did.
A senior Labour official said: âThese people are clearly very interested in politics, but for some reason they havenât joined the Conservative Party. It would appear they are really into redistribution of wealth, nationalisation and the welfare state. Itâs all very sinister.â
I read that as Socialite thenâŚ
Well Iâm having an ironic dig about the âpersonalâ. I just find this âwe donât do personalâ line incredibly holier-than-thou, especially when itâs used against those who challenge Corbynâs policies.
Weâve never had a disagreement about NATO. My own position is that a defence force should be part of a democratised EU.
But what about the wider question of actually getting into power (which Corbynites love to dodge, as if itâs somehow beneath them)? If Harold Wilson was the last âtrueâ Labour leader to actually win an election, that means weâre heading for 40 years without an approved brand of Labourism. Given that Ed Miliband lost the election badly on a left-centre ticket nowhere near as radical as Corbynâs, how much wilderness is too much?
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I find the way people talk about Blair on here, very strange.
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Honestly think that if Corbyn wins, all bets are off when it comes to what happens next. I liked what DeppoInExile said on Twitter. The people who are telling you he canât win an election are people that canât win a Labour leadership race. Says it all.
Personally, I think heâs the only one who stands a chance of getting elected at a general election.
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This seems to back up your thoughts Pap
Now that is interesting, hoofinruth.
I hadnât considered that angle.
Still donât think heâs got (much of) a chance, but interesting that he might have the best chance.
The rather glaring problem with it, Bletch, is that not all subjects of polls actually vote.
Perhaps the most cretinous intervention in the last election was Russell Brandâs âdonât voteâ call. While it may not have been causal, by far the lowest voting demographic were the newly enfranchised 18-25 year olds. They needed to be encouraged to vote, not told it didnât matter. One good thing to do with Corbynâs campaign is that he seems to have attracted large numbers of this group and he isnât likely (I hope) to take the same line.
Certainly someone needs to bring them back into the voting arena. Look whatâs happened since. The age and social class groups who voted in the greatest numbers found their state perks protected (higher pensions, release from inheritance tax). The (relative) non-voters, by contrast, have been, and are about to be, absolutely hammered.
So if the same sorts of people vote in the ways they did last time, absolutely nothing changes, and the young and poor(er) will take the hit again.
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Iâd love to quiz you about it Lou, but Iâve tried before and we didnât get too far.
I saw this on FB today; not one of mine.
Blair was best president we ever had. I remember one time when he was still president, i think it was towards the end of his career, he appeared on Football Focus as studio guest. It was slightly strange, cos he was kind of out of his element, and breathing v.heavily in a slightly panicky way, like he was worried they were gonna trip him up with their high-level questioning.
âWho is your favourite player?â asked I dunno Maniche or Dan Walker, or Gary Lineker, or whoever it was at the time.
âMalbranque,â said Tony Blair.
I done a little LOL. Steed Malbranque? Of Fulham? But then, right, Malbranque went out that day and scored two goals. I mean, prob blair had the match fixed by MI5, but it was still pretty cool. Legend.
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I will one day Pap!
I wouldnât bother Lou, pap & his Facebook correspondants are v.confused & donât understand politics at all. You canât blame Blair for Iraq war! Blair was just President, which is like being the front man of a boyband, his job was to do TV performances & shake hands with i.e. George Bush & things like that. Heâs not the music producer, or record label! The decisions about what wars we do are made by i.e. the White House.
Free Tony Blair, you commie bastards!
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Quit taking the piss, Bearsy!
Iâm not i love tony blair Iâm srs!
This is why I voted for him.
Spot the look on the smug tuncâs face as he turns away.
Grinning, he thinks to himself, âI will be able to do anything now. Anything. ANYTHING. Mmmmmmwwwwahahahahahaha, MMMMMwwwwahahahahahahaâŚâ
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