Is Britain A Racist Country?

Is Britain A Racist Country?
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#1

I don’t percieve it to be, but maybe others have a different opinion?


#2

Tbh lately there’s an elephant in the room and many accusations are being alluded to…be honest to your convictions.


#3

its more xenophobic than racist and thats only between the pubs in the village.


#4

You’re asking the wrong people here.

Although I grew up in Wolverhampton (sold hotdogs at Molineux as it happens) in the 60’s and early 70’s and saw foul racism, I also saw complete acceptance on all sides, irrelevant of colour or creed or race.

My parents were ‘imperialist racists’ of an age when such was accepted. My grandfather was in the Army in the Boer War, in India and he brought up his daughters (my mum) according to the rules of the day.

So perhaps I should be a racist - but I have strong and good friendships within those very colours and creeds and races that my imperialist past should suggest I shouldn’t have.

Yet I have felt, to my shame, strongly anti those ‘foreigners’ I have seen begging (like in Chandlers Ford centre) and had the thought go through my head ‘how come she’s begging with all those gold teeth in her mouth?’ - now how foul and racist is that??

I think myself non-racist, slightly xenophobic maybe (there is a difference) but I actually believe most countries are basically ‘racist’ - but simply on a them vs us basis - colour and religion really are just an excuse.

So yes, the UK is xenophobic and a bit racist.


#5

Originally posted by @PhilippineSaint

its more xenophobic than racist and thats only between the pubs in the village.

Twenty or thirty years ago then I would agree with you, not now.


#6

Originally posted by @jet-sounds

Originally posted by @PhilippineSaint

its more xenophobic than racist and thats only between the pubs in the village.

Twenty or thirty years ago then I would agree with you, not now.

Disagree


#7

I don’t think Britain is a racist country. I think we’re capable of being a fairly ignorant country at times, but if we’re talking the sort of irrational loathing toward another race just because they’re another race? No.

I’m not denying the problem. A sad, but simple story is my then five year old daughter coming home and asking what “nigger” meant. She had never heard us say it before. Apparently, an African girl had started school that day, my girl was asked to chaperone her around. That is what she heard, at five, from five year olds.

Doesn’t need to be that way. Some of you have met my younger bro and can attest that he’s definitely a shade darker than me. It’s because like my sister, his dad is Iranian where mine is English. This was all kept a secret from me for about a decade, so as far as I was concerned, they were just my bro and sister. I still feel that way now, but back then, I didn’t even know they were rocking different pigmentation. Every other fucker did.

Marvel at that, if you will. Junior pap, future truth seeker, walking around in a world where everyone with basic common sense knows his life story, apart from him. Some would argue that’s still the case now :lou_sunglasses:

The point is I never saw colour. The kids abusing the little African girl at my daughter’s school definitely did, and I can only conclude that unlike me, that hatred was drilled into them at home. Where else could they get it?

We’ve got a small proportion of racists that like any vocal minority, are always going to sound louder than they are on social media. When you see the pitiful numbers of far right types roll into towns and get resisted by forces ten times their number, you really have to conclude that for all the dickheads there are, there are plenty more that’ll challenge them.


#8

Originally posted by @OldComputerNerd

You’re asking the wrong people here.

Although I grew up in Wolverhampton (sold hotdogs at Molineux as it happens) in the 60’s and early 70’s and saw foul racism, I also saw complete acceptance on all sides, irrelevant of colour or creed or race.

My parents were ‘imperialist racists’ of an age when such was accepted. My grandfather was in the Army in the Boer War, in India and he brought up his daughters (my mum) according to the rules of the day.

So perhaps I should be a racist - but I have strong and good friendships within those very colours and creeds and races that my imperialist past should suggest I shouldn’t have.

Yet I have felt, to my shame, strongly anti those ‘foreigners’ I have seen begging (like in Chandlers Ford centre) and had the thought go through my head ‘how come she’s begging with all those gold teeth in her mouth?’ - now how foul and racist is that??

I think myself non-racist, slightly xenophobic maybe (there is a difference) but I actually believe most countries are basically ‘racist’ - but simply on a them vs us basis - colour and religion really are just an excuse.

So yes, the UK is xenophobic and a bit racist.

I get that OldComputerNerd, my great granddad fought in the boar war but loved Africa and my grandad served in India, Africa and Egypt and learnt urdu while in India and really embraced their way of life…I’ve travelled and embrace other cultures and find it insulting to be labelled racist when nothing could be further from the truth.


#9

I don’t want to hold my teenage mutant offspring as a paragon of virtue but I don’t think either has a bone of racism in their body.

neither understand racism or xenophobia.

They’ve just found it that they can get Irish citizenship because of a long lost link & they want to get passport / citizenship because they are embarrassed by how the UK is behaving.

All their friends don’t understand why the olds are so shit…that’s us btw.

Oh, and up until recently the Irish were considered the European blacks…but we don’t like to talk about that do we…


#10

There is no such thing as a racist country. People are racist, not countries. There are certainly racist people in this country. From my own observations (and bear in mind that I’m a honky mysellf), racism is for the most part something that exists at a general rather than a specific level.

I don’t think it’s easy, perhaps not even possible, for white people to say how prevalent racism is in this country. You’d need to be on the receving end, and we’re not.


#11

Originally posted by @Fowllyd

There is no such thing as a racist country. People are racist, not countries. There are certainly racist people in this country. From my own observations (and bear in mind that I’m a honky mysellf), racism is for the most part something that exists at a general rather than a specific level.

I don’t think it’s easy, perhaps not even possible, for white people to say how prevalent racism is in this country. You’d need to be on the receving end, and we’re not.

This is so true Fowllyd :slight_smile: … Dawkins first and still his best book “The Selfish Gene” explains how quite naturally we are governed by our genes and their behavior through natural selection. Evolutionary theory predicts that organisms will often discriminate, because helping similar partners and harming dissimilar ones increase the fraction of the discriminating party’s genes in future generations


#12

Ignorant would be a better description, especially as there is no objective scientific truth on which racism can actually stand, therefore anyone who exhibits racist behaviour is ignorant by definition. For some reason the English speaking people of the world do seem to embrace ignorance though, being seen to know things in any reasonable depth or sophistication tends to get you called pretentious or worse, an expert! Whereas people like Trump and Farage who positively revel in reductionist/ignorant views are seen as being “men of the people”. My only real experience of non-English speaking cultures is China, and while the reverence they place in education is probably a bit overstated the Chinese certainly don’t like to be seen as ignorant in formal or informal situations.


#13

Science doesn’t really do absolute truths or opinions just tries to explain the world using evidence and peer reviewed stuff.


#14

True, but what I was getting at is that racist attitudes and statements can usually be pretty easily refuted by empirical evidence and observation which has its roots in scientific theory.


#15

My mate got chucked out of a coat shop for asking if they had any Bomber Jackets FFS … iz it cuz he is a beardy beard bro?


#16

Originally posted by @Fowllyd

I don’t think it’s easy, perhaps not even possible, for white people to say how prevalent racism is in this country. You’d need to be on the receving end, and we’re not.

Ultimately true, but white folk can do a lot better in attempting to find out where the line is. In my experience, too many white people just don’t talk about race at all, don’t know how to talk about it, and don’t know where the line is. I think we saw a lot of evidence of that in the Brexit threads.

If you asked these people if they were racist, you’d get a resounding no, but benign ignorance is just as capable as leading you down the path as malign ignorance.

In something of an upgrade from the “I’ve got a black mate” line, I’ve known people from different backgrounds for decades. There are four black dudes I’ve known for 30 years apiece. We frequently talk about race, about racism and while that is never going to be substitute for experiencing it yourself, such experience does tend to rob you of ignorance, benign or otherwise.


#17

It is not just White Caucasians who can be racist.

Equally I have seen countless examples of how “political correctness” can be subverted or misunderstood so that people do not seek to understand actual cultural differences.

While you defend against racism, ask yourselves as an example how many people you expressed Eid greetings to this past few days

Huge swathes of the UK have cultural misunderstandings or a lack of respect for others and true integration has not occured. One example would be Arabic street signs in the Brick Lane area of London,.

Fwiw some of the most racist people I have met on my travels are Indians.

Yes some culture has been absorbed by UK, your Curry & Kebab houses but I would bet everyone one of us has been in one with piss ed up people late at night making quips about the server over the years.

Chilcot himself said you didn’t understand Iraq. Without understanding you can offend.

The arrogance of Drunken stag weekend Brit mean nations like Poland hate us. We hate the French (well mainly the arrogant types that live in Paris). We hate the Germans putting their towels on the sun loungers by the pool,at 5am when we,are on vacation.

You lot are,all saying you want an English manager to run the shower of shit National football team. Ffs look at your reaction to the Welsh team, or Aussie at cricket…

Arrogance, lack of cultural understanding, xenophobia, all provide a fertile breeding ground.

So sorry, yes the UK & every Nation on earth has ism issues.

It’s the degree you can debate, not it’s existence.

Imho your corrupt self serving politicians are to blame. If you do not respect authority why does anyone care when your leaders are only interested in themselves.

Rant over


#18

As Fowllyd says, it’s essentially people that are racist, not countries; however, countries can enact policies and laws that, hopefully, help to eliminate racism entirely or, at the very least, eradicate its overt form.

During the course of my lifetime, Britain, like other countries, has enacted such policies and laws with positive results. For example, I recall watching my 18 year-old mixed-race friend playing football in the Hampshire League, back in the 70s, where he was regularly referred to as a ‘dirty fucking n*****’ with barely anyone batting a bloody eyelid.

Overt racism such as this is much, much less common these days. I like to think this is because people living in 2016 multi-ethnic Britain no longer see race as an issue – and, in the main, I believe this to be the case – however, I’m realistic enough to acknowledge that covert racism still exists.

How much it exists, and how much it exists in Britain compared to other countries, I’m not really qualified to answer, not least because I’ve only ever lived in this country; however, having visited quite a few different countries over my lifetime, I sense that we’re far from being the worse with regards to racism.

I’m loathe to link this discussion with the Brexit fallout – goodness knows that’s being done to death elsewhere – but, very sadly, the result of the referendum appears to have emboldened some racists to display their racism overtly. I believe it is important to acknowledge that these people would still have been racists regardless of the referendum result, and that it is even more important that whoever is now in charge of this country comes down extremely hard on these racists.


#19

Here in Carlisle, like in Southampton there is a huge Polish community that are coming under a huge amount of abuse from local idiots, Polish people that have lived in the city for generations, and longer than some of the youth and older generations that are dishing out the abuse. But some of it is just pure hate ‘Go back home’, ‘when are you leaving, we voted you out of our country’… pure hate, for no reason!

Xenophobia is the main issue, which in turn breeds ignorance. There are people that will say things up here about all races and think it is ok to turn around and say, I am only joking mate, or the line that sends shivers down my spin ‘I have coloured friends’ and think this makes it alright, even though they are not using black, the correct term. The same group of people, tht hesitate before saying ‘black’ like they think it is wrong to say.

Our family have always talked about race and do not avoid the issue, so that are children are very tuned in when it comes to this. The eldest is the only one who understands to a high level and knows what is right and wrong. We cover pretty much all discrimination and they are all fully aware of the fact that we will not stand for it. All you can do is hope that they get their small part of the education they have been given and spread it among their group of friends.

Every country has it’s race issues, and in an area that seemed to be improving over the last decade, even if slowly seems to be going backward recently. I am hoping it is just a blip and we can continue with our battle against the ignorance that is very much still out there.


#20

Originally posted by @Halo-Stickman

I’m loathe to link this discussion with the Brexit fallout – goodness knows that’s being done to death elsewhere – but, very sadly, the result of the referendum appears to have emboldened some racists to display their racism overtly. I believe it is important to acknowledge that these people would still have been racists regardless of the referendum result, and that it is even more important that whoever is now in charge of this country comes down extremely hard on these racists.

Excellent post in general, Halo. Don’t disagree with it, but wanted to explore this bit further. Diane Abbott was tweeting something about Brexit empowering racists. I don’t really disagree with that - there are enough reports to suggest that it is happening.

Ultimately though, I wonder whether we might be better off for knowing. It’s always something of a sad day when you see one of your Facebook friends turn out to be a racist twat, but you always feel better off for knowing. It is fucking unpleasant, especially for anyone that has to deal with it, but it can be recognised and dealt with.

I’m optimistic. All you need to do is take a look at any of these “white man” marches. Not only do they arrive in pitiful numbers, but the vast majority are in some kind of disguise that’ll prevent them from being easily identified. Why? Because they know that there is inherent shame in their position. They don’t want their racism tied to their real lives.

The vast majority of those that oppose them are white folk in the open.

When you compare the two sides, the numbers, and the methods each has to employ, you get an idea of the size of racism in this country. It’s there, but it is hugely opposed by the majority.