Pap - if you read my posts, I have never implied guilt by association, I merely pointed out that I feel uncomfortable about who is siding with both arguments and that on balance the lesser evils (IMHO) appeared to be saying Remain… To paraphrase Steelers Wheel ‘cunts to the left of me Bigger cunts to the right, here I Am stuck in the middle…’
others have suggested the potential strengthening of a validated right wing view on this and that this might be a concern we should consider…
Dude, you drew up a two lists of people, picking the dregs of Leave for your second list, and placing me in amongst them.
That’s the post I replied to. That is guilt by association.
Whilst I’m at it, Corbyn said yesterday that (paraphrase) “If we Brexit we will lose the NHS?” he didn’t really put any flesh ont he bones just said that because the Governement have been breaking it up piecemeal then they will continue to do so if we Brexit.
First off if they’re doing it already they’ll continue to do it if we Brexit or not!
Secondly the NHS is protected from any EU mandates (I believe) so why we it suddenly be at risk if we didn’t have the EU lawmakers protecting it (which they aren’t anyway!!).
Cant you see that for this to have any credibilty, it should be placed i context of:
11bn net contribution is approx 2% of the UKs tax revenues (approx 560bn per annum)
What does our 11bn get spent onis surely the more important question? Sure a fuck load of of beurocracy, but we know that comes with any governmental institutions, its old news… but what about the rest? Well rural development grants, infrastructure grants and yes industry grants and loans - but the thing is, this is NO different from all the grants and loans and big tax breaks the UK has goven companies to put their offices and factories here -and some of that has come from EU money.
The EU did not say to Ford, here move to Turkey and we will give you money… No FORD will have looked at their bottom line and decided it would be better to reduce their overheads and then applied for a grant to shift its business… as companies could to come here and as they have done and continue to do…
If you present your document in that context and with the details on how its spent then you have an informed choice… onits own its meaningless. (IMHO) and just like most of the crap presented by both sides.
Fear bomb? …ermaybe… aybe not. I am not saying we will suddenly become overrun with facists, but that it ‘could’ strengthen the right wing - especially in immigration etc and that is what I find concerning - It might not, but if the first thing this country does on Exit is put the borders back upto EU citizens, its not exactly the kind of message I like to see…
I have no idea how he is working that out… and it ismost likely scaremongering … which iswhat this whole campaign is about. But no different from your posting of the UKs contribution without context really is it?
Corbyn - ‘‘we will lose the NHS’’’ whooo cry scary…
BT - ‘‘look we the UK contribution is going up’’ by about 0.003% of GDP… woooo cry scary
No I heard him on the radio this morning and some of the things he said, where just like a bully in the playground. We will have to put up income tax, cut the NHS among other and yet more scare tactics. I have had enough of these tactic, which I can only see as an abuse of their power at number 10. They are just saying anything now to get the remain vote. It this was to happen in the playground you woud be in serious trouble as a child!!!
For this reason among others, I am OUT. That is it, one week before I have decided, it is time for the clowns at number 10 to be shaken up.
I’m done, I am now going to sit in the corner of a dark room and rock for a week, until I can vote!!
So George was on the radio this morning giving us the latest line in catastrophes that will beset us if we choose to leave. Apparantly if we vote to leave then on the 24th of June, we don’t have an economic plan. At all.
Now correct me if I am wrong, but surely it is the job of the stupid cocksucker to plan for all eventualities and have a contingency plan.
He is hardly going to walk into No11 on that Friday morning, pull out a fresh piece of paper and write at the top “UK economic plan”, underline it, then put his pen in his mouth and think “where do I start”.
George you can fuck off and take your bullshit lies and weasel words and shove them up your arse.
No I heard him on the radio this morning and some of the things he said, where just like a bully in the playground. We will have to put up income tax, cut the NHS among other and yet more scare tactics. I have had enough of these tactic, which I can only see as an abuse of their power at number 10. They are just saying anything now to get the remain vote. It this was to happen in the playground you woud be in serious trouble as a child!!!
For this reason among others, I am not OUT. That is it, one week before I have decided, it is time for the clowns at number 10 to be shaken up.
I’m done, I am now going to sit in the corner of a dark room and rock for a week, until I can vote!!
This doesn’t tally to the sentiment of your first paragragh - are you sure you meant “not” and not “now”
… Sfcsim, you are saying you are voting OUT because of the cunts in Number 10 ned shaking up and the fear tactics? Thing is with this argument is that it could equally be used to vote IN…
… Sfcsim, you are saying you are voting OUT because of the cunts in Number 10 ned shaking up and the fear tactics? Thing is with this argument is that it could equally be used to vote IN…
Fuck off Gay, he’s ours now. He has seen the light and crossed to the dark side
If that’s him in his Avatar, you can have him - we only want the beautiful people
(I like your almost oxymoronic statement (with ever so innocent edit) there,not to be confused with moronic, naturally )
First up to Pap. Sorry. It was never my intention to suggest guilt by association and all that that could mean. If this has offended then apologies.
I do feel a bit passionate about this debate. In particular, around the issue of immigration. Whilst I fully acknowledge all issues of ‘bloated and undemocratic’ institutions (not that I agree its that straight forward, but lets agree to differ) - my POV is driven by certain principles which I have touched on before -the issues around migration are symbollic of them. It may to some seem ‘naive’ and over simplistic to base an opinion on what many perceive as a single issue, but to me it symbolises more than just the practical issues of people numbers.
The flagship of a pro-Brexit flotilla currently sailing up the Thames was caught up in the UK’s largest ever fraud involving illegal catches of fish and is now partly owned by one of the richest fishing barons in the country
Another ill-judged stunt in the battle of who can deliver the worst PR.
OK, it’s an old story and one I highlighted a while ago but my question, again, is why would the NHS die if we Brexit. It sits outside of EU control so nothing would change post Brexit, that I am aware of anyway.
In fact staffing would probably be better as we are currently blocked from getting qualified medics from India under EU rules!! (I’m sure I read that the other day, forgive me if I’m wrong).
As Leave have said, despite over egging the figures, any money that we give to the EU could be given to the NHS so in my mind that is a good thing surely?
Its difficult to sift through whatis lies, speculation, potential issues and nonsense on this issue. I wok in the teh healthcare sector… and if looking to develop a health system from scratch that offers the best standards of care, is available to all irrespective of income, the NHS system is not teh model I would use… haveing said that the model I WOULD use/recommend is only possible if we as a nation were willing to spend much more on healthcare.
The concept of teh NHS is great, but its a system designe in 1945 at a time when the population was much smaller, folks worked to 65 and died younger - the current funding mechanisms and shear demand means the NHS as it stands is not delivering optimal care… no fault of those who work within it, but with the way and level of funding.
I have not looked into what would happen on Leave, and it seems almost impossible to get a real truthful answer as it depends on whose perpsetive you believe… but if being really honest, I think the future of the NHS lies less with Leave or Remain, but in the willingness of the UK voters to either pay more for healthcare and demand appropriate funding structures…
