⚖ Gonçalo Amaral wins libel appeal

Really GA, there’s no need for JS to explain this to you. Actually think it’s counterproductive in a way. Something that you discover yourself is always more valuable than something that you’re told by others. There’s an element that you can’t get away from. Even the official files are something that is in effect, told by others. They just tend to carry a bit more weight on account of their official status and supposed impartiality.

If you’re interested, have a read and check into it. There are plenty of sources to look at. A sad fact from my own personal experience is that very few of these cases look less dodgy when looked at more.

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Originally posted by @Jack-Schitt

Oh Bear. If I need to explain to you the importance of the self confessed Head of a Government Media Monitoring Unit, actually going on the public record, to admit that the entire purpose of their function, their reason for being (in a country with a supposedly ‘free press’) – is _ “to control what comes out in the media” _ – I think you’re probably beyond my further help mate.

Do you mean cos the bro in charge of keeping bad stuff out of media admitted the same to the media, which is i.e. Ironic?

Isn’t trying to control the media the main job of every political bro? I’ve seen the Thick of It, and I’m pretty sure they don’t do much else.

I tried to do Investigate, but on Internet for every source saying why i.e. the detective dogs evidence is Damning, there is another source rebutting + explaining why it is Not Damning. You can drive urself mad trying to investigate things on Internet. I’m pretty sure you could find Internet Evidence to prove either side of almost any issue. I.e. if you’re predisposed to find things “dodgy”, you can easily find Internet Evidence to demonstrate same.

Edit: No disrespect to Jack, who I am sure weighs all facts & evidences with the blind impartiality of, erm dunno, Minty on Saintsweb or someone fair minded like that.

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Sadly posters like CB Fry and his sidekick Hypocondriac dont seem remotely interested in discussing anything sensibly and it is all about point scoring - be it on the McCann thread, the Paris Massacre thread, any thread really. None of us knows for sure what happened to that poor little girl and we are all entitled to our opinions, but the standard of discussion there is appalling and just descends into the usual playground mentality. The police inspector came in for some flak yesterday over the publication of his book and that he was trying to make money out of his “botched” investigation. Now it is possible that was his motive, it is also possible that he wanted to put the record straight. If I had made the statement that he did it for the money I would have Fry and Hypo all over me like a rash. Where is your evidence, you are just making things up again etc. It is ok to have an unsubstantiated position if you are Fry and Hypo it seems. Fry has spent a lot of time pouring scorn on anything that points a finger at the McCanns (and there is an awful lot of stuff that does point a finger at them) yet mention that he thinks they are blameless and it is all Ooooo he never said that. He doesnt think they are blameless etc etc. In which case why not say that you think that they might well be implicated and not keep picking on those who are trying to work out how? Hypo has not joined this thread which is odd as he has plenty to say on the other forum. Why is that? Probably because there is more sympathy for the McCanns could be guilty angle on here so there is no mileage for him.

I agree with Pap, if you dont know anything about the case, once you start digging it becomes fascinating. There is a lot of stuff out there from both sides but if you try and stick to the impartial stuff it is eye opening. Sadly it seems at the moment that we will never find out the truth of what happened and that certainly hasnt been helped by the behaviour of the McCanns and the Tapas 7.

Jack has alluded to further things about Gerry that I wasnt aware of and if true, makes this stink even more.

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Originally posted by @Bearsy

Do you mean cos the bro in charge of keeping bad stuff out of media admitted the same to the media, which is i.e. Ironic?

Isn’t trying to control the media the main job of every political bro? I’ve seen the Thick of It, and I’m pretty sure they don’t do much else.

How many people suspected of being involved in their own daughter’s disappearance get the government’s media spin boy as their special advisor?

His job was to control what came out in the media, and he did it well. For years afterward, abduction theory was the only thing in the news and the McCanns were treated sympathetically when making TV appearances, or front page news whenever they’d identified a new suspect that wasn’t them.

The media campaign in the UK has had one purpose. Create as many stories as possible which support the abduction theory.

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Here’s an interesting piece from Craig Murray about the extraordinary level of support the McCanns received. Former British Ambassador, has done his time working with Brits with missing kids abroad.

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gotcha soz i thought he worked for Government i was Misunderstanding.

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Originally posted by @pap

Originally posted by @Fatso

not really, which is why I’ve left it. It sounds like bollocks to me, but you lot are free to carry on.

Which is a much healthier attitude than you see elsewhere.

Absolutely. That’s what I love most about this place. And why although I hardly ever post anywhere else these days, I’ve somehow managed to rack up 587 posts in slightly over two months. Lol. Unprecedented for me. Sorry if some of what I post doesn’t always go over so well, but I can only be true to myself, and share what I know when the need arises. 1224 points accrued from those 587 posts hopefully means that at least most of them have been appreciated.

But it is a great credit to the people who regularly post here, that rather than getting aggressively defensive when you don’t agree with what you’ve just read – that it is generally either simply left alone, or at least respectfully disagreed with, rather than attacking the messenger with personal invective. Tis why I feel comfortable enough to share things I know that others might feel sometimes makes for uncomfortable reading.

I do understand that this all makes for highly unpleasant reading, and especially so if you’re hearing it all for the first time, and seeing actual evidence that has previously been intentionally withheld from you. When you’ve been dealing with this case for as long as I have, and are privvy to certain info and facts that I cannot even post due to their sensitivity – it is very easy to gradually become desensitised to the impact such info can have, when it has become such an ingrained part of your life and consciousness. I hope I’ve been able to mostly present my info in a respectful manner myself too, but sometimes the anger and frustration I feel at the huge injustice surrounding what happened to that poor little girl, is just not possible to entirely keep in perspective.

If I do overstep the bounds, I trust that you’ll be good enough to (kindly and tactfully) let me know.

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Originally posted by @areloa-grandee

I must admit, I have refrained from making a commment as I know absolutely feck all about it. I am however, a little confused over the idea that any effort to avoid the ‘truth’ would reach so high up the foodc hain, no matter who knows who.

Do I think the UK Government has covered up some Paedo ring and child murder because someone knows someone? No, I cant believe this to be the case. This is not some black ops thing with state sponsored murder of a terrorist, but the murder of a child and there is simply no way that such a cover up would not leak, given the numbers of folk involved and the sickening nature of the crime

Jack, I am not suggesting that you are not presenting facts as you see them, but I do think that maybe there are more possible conclusions from all this than conspiracy?

The greatest difficulty is that there is certain information that years ago, was leaked “out there”, that there is now no longer any record of, due to a Carter-Ruck clean up operation and many takedown notices. They are the most feared defamation lawyers in the country, and most normal people have no hope of facing them off due to their massively extravagant legal costs, how amazingly good they are at what they do, and the devastating risk of losing all you have if you stand up to them with what you know, and lose. Fellow researchers I know have been ruined by them financially, and had their lives turned upside down, in their attempts to speak the truth.

I have ‘hinted’ and ‘alluded’ to some of this info as far as I can get away with, without outright coming out and saying it. I do not say these things lightly, they are based on evidence I have personally seen, that now no longer exists, due to Jim Gamble (former head of CEOP, and McCann friend) emptying out Gerry’s CATS file 19309, and destroying all that information. But it existed, was leaked, and now is no more. But many people saw it before it was, and know what that sick man Gerry McCann is all about. :lou_sad:

Again, apologies if I come across too strongly in my presentation. But try to imagine how you’d feel, if you were in my (and many others) positions, of knowing this, and not being able to do anything but make vague powerless hints about it. Very very frustrating.

Finishing on your points re: Paedo rings and how could the McCanns be so protected, as Pap has said – just think about all the sick cunts (saville etc) who got away with so much for so long. Add McCanns to that list as far as I (and many other researchers) are concerned. What that poor little girl (sorry - ‘allegedly’) went through is horriffic beyond words. And there was reference to photographic evidence of it in that now empty CATS file).

As I’ve alluded to throughout – think ‘bigger picture’ here. There is no way that the amount of government support the McCanns have had from word go, is purely for them. There were ‘other guests’ of particular importance visiting that sordid little holiday, in a Resort owned by the wealthy and powerful Symingtons that are being protected. That’s why the full force of the goverment’s protection and “control of what came out in the media” was immediately out in full force from word go. Not for two random british doctors.

I bet Ben Needham’s mum would have loved to have had this level of consular support when her son disappeared in Greece.

Anyway, points made, I’l leave it there my friend. :lou_smiley:

That’s certainly an interesting read. Noiceable though, that he pulls up a long way short of the “establishment cover-up”, high-level paedophile ring" and similar accusations/theories that are bandied about. Personally, I find it all too agree with one of his main conclusions:

For the avoidance of doubt, I do not believe there was a high level paedophile ring involved. I make no such argument. Nor do I claim to know what happened to Madeleine McCann. But I do believe that the McCanns were less than exemplary parents. I believe that New Labour’s No.10 saw, in typical Blair fashion, a highly photogenic tragedy which there might be popularity in appearing to work on.

The suggestion that Gerry McCann killed his daughter, then called in help from on high, I find a good deal harder to credit. For one thing, I struggle with the concept that being a member of some obscure governmental committee gives one carte blanche to top one’s own children and then be protected by various government agencies.

For another, if the full force of the government’s PR machine (and other agencies) was thrown behind the McCanns, and this was done before anything was known to the general public, how come they made such a balls of it all? I’d have thought that keeping it all as quiet as possible would be the best option, and they sure as hell didn’t do that.

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Originally posted by @Fowllyd

The suggestion that Gerry McCann killed his daughter, then called in help from on high, I find a good deal harder to credit.

I for one – have never suggested that Gerry killed her. Nor that the death was necessarily intentional.

I’ve simply presented a profile of the kind things and circles he was involved with.

But what if as Gonçalo Amaral suggests, there was a terrible accidental death during “some activity or other”. And due to the risks of what could be uncovered during an autopsy – allowing there to actually be one, was simply out of the question_. What then?_

I’ve stopped short of exploring the reasons behind the government intervention, largely because you don’t need to. The sheer scale of their involvement, if that article is in any way accurate, should raise flags. At the time, I thought the best explanation was simply not wanting a repetition of the Louise Woodward case, a high profile case in which a British nanny was convicted for the manslaughter of an American child in her charge. I seem to remember there being a huge number of supportive stories in the press concerning her at the time, mostly from British media. The US was considerably more critical and I am convinced that had a similar incident occurred there instead of Portugal, the McCanns would have faced charges.

It didn’t happen in Portugal because the British government pushed the Portuguese authorities around, and managed pretty much all interactions between the PJ and the McCanns after they quickly got involved.

The McCanns are not well thought of by a section of the British public as it is. If it ever comes out that they know more about the disappearance of their daughter, especially if they were somehow complicit, public anger will be much larger than it ever would have been if they’d just disappeared from the news (or admitted they knew more at the time). Who knows, maybe the undercurrent of interest on the Internet would never have built up a head of steam.

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Jack/Pap, given your knowledge of this case, would either of you say that Gerry McCann and possibly his wife both have narcissistic personality disorders?

Absolutely.

i have not got narcissistic personality disorder! Why is everyone always saying that!

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I know you hate yourself Bearsy, so you are clear in my book. You are taking the concept of ‘loving yourself’ a little too literally -its not about wanking 7 times a day

To Pap and JS - Yes I can accept that Governmental and institutional powers can’ influence certain distasteful incidents… BUT, I think there is a difference between them then sweeping histori c(70sand 80s) allegations under the carpert… versus, the possibilty of child murder (or accidental killing) in recent times…just seems too far fethched. If I was the Policeman, would I publish a book with my findings and conclusions, or would I keep digging and accumulating eveidence so that ultimately there is no dout and no chance of avoiding the courtroom?

As I’ve said before, you’re better off getting your own answers than getting them secondhand from myself and JS. This post perhaps illustrates why. The book was released long after it was clear there was no chance of any case hitting a courtroom and after he’d been removed from his position.

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Originally posted by @areloa-grandee

To Pap and JS - Yes I can accept that Governmental and institutional powers can’ influence certain distasteful incidents… BUT, I think there is a difference between them then sweeping historic (70sand 80s) allegations under the carpert… versus, the possibilty of child murder (or accidental killing) in recent times…just seems too far fethched.

Not quite the point I was making. They were not “historic” at the time of their occurrence. Lots of powerful people were fucking children, and getting away with it. Lots of powerful people are still fucking children, and still getting away with it.

Somewhere in that above short paragraph – there is a constant.

Somewhere in that constant – there are ‘enablers’.

Originally posted by Gay Abandon

If I was the Policeman, would I publish a book with my findings and conclusions, or would I keep digging and accumulating eveidence so that ultimately there is no dout and no chance of avoiding the courtroom?

Pap has covered that. And he is correct. Also in that truth best reveals itself to you when it is sought and discovered for oneself.

But as I have previously stated (and I wasn’t plucking it out of my ass, not that I’m suggesting for a moment that you thought or inferred I was - I’m just saying) that Gordon Brown refused point blank to sign off on the Lisbon Treaty that was under negotiation at that time, until he had been personally informed by the then Portuguese PM, that GA had been fired as Lead Investigator (GB knew before GA himself was even told!) – and that he had been given a cast iron guarantee that the McCanns would make it back to the UK without charge. Once that had occured, the treaty was signed.

As Pap has said on a few occasions now – the Portuguese investigations did not have insufficient evidence against the McCanns, they had shitloads of it. They were simply not allowed to do anything with it, due to instructions from ‘on high’. That is the point. They were not allowed to see the case through to fruition, because of political pressure from the highest levels of government (in particular, ours).

The McCann’s initial legal team in Portugal, told Kate at one point: “You are very lucky that you are not Portuguese. Or you would already be in jail by now.”

I don’t think that generally, you are still quite getting that which I am as subtly as possible trying to nod toward here.

The whole holiday was not simply a “family vacation” as was portrayed (or you could say “came out”) in the media (which was, as Clarence Mitchell has already told us from the horse’s mouth - ‘under his control’).

I have on a number of occasions now, alluded to “other guests”, who were both powerful and influential, who were visiting this “holiday” (of the nature described by the good Dr. Katherina Gaspar). This is not a “theory” of mine – but rather – a reality that is being “controlled” so that it does not “come out in the media”. I cannot tell you the names of these important “elite” people, as by the time I awoke in the morning, Carter Ruck would be ruining my life forever.

But for pure example – and I cannot stress clearly enough that the names I am about to use _ were not _ (to the best of my knowledge at least, lol) in anyway involved in what happened in Praia da Luz, I am using them purely to illustrate a point.

Imagine that this “under-age swinging club” was visited by Prince Charles, David Cameron, and Lord Rothschild (_ it wasn’t _, but humour me for a moment). Imagine that during one of the ‘sessions’ that occurred during the “the frequent comings and goings at Apartment 5A that week” (phrase from a witness statement in the PJ files) – these incredibly powerful and important people were present, when a “terrible accident” happened. Or, as Gerry McCann might say (and did, when phoning home upon the “discovery” that Madeleine was “missing”) - “There has been a disaster! It is an absolute disaster!” (curious choice of words to announce the “disappearance” of your daughter with, to your family. A disaster is what happens when something goes badly wrong).

But I digress. Imagine that these incredibly powerful and important people were present during the “disaster” (thanks Gerry). Can you then see that this might suddenly become the “matter of National Security” that the British Goverment refer to it as when rejecting Freedom of Information Requests regarding details of the McCann case?

Now – replace those completely innocent names that I used, with those who were actually there.

Do you now understand what I’m trying to say, without actually saying it? (For some reason that last sentence sounds a bit terse, but I assure it is not meant that way). :slight_smile:

And if so, does that help you to more clearly understand why some might move heaven and earth to ‘cover it up’?

You have the body of a dead child, that for “whatever reasons”, it is imperative is never subjected to an autopsy. Because if it was, you might say it would be something of a “disaster” for some. What then?

A staged abduction is what. All the focus upon the poor grieving parents, as our friend Clarence is busy “controlling what comes out in the media”. Family holiday, focus purely on them, and their handful of friends – no one need know (and nor will they) that anyone else was even there, or had anything to do with it. Because Clarence is controlling what comes out in the media.

I’m trying the best I can, to say what needs to be said, without actually saying it. Because if I did – it would be very bad for all concerned. It’s late, and I’m tired. Let me know if you’re catching my drift. :lou_wink_2:

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Some fascinating information JS, thanks for posting.

It is a shame for that poor girl that whatever the truth is, may never be known, and that the people to blame for her disappearance however it was caused, will not face trial.

And even with no body, i think that it is okay to pray (Aand i am not religious) that Maddie rests in piece.

And, yes, go to bed fella, 4:00 is not just late, it is almost sunrise!!

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