DP… you need to go and look up the correct definitions of hypotheses, and theories first. There are very few absolute proofs in science - Evolution remains a theory… it can be demonstrated through experiment, yet that does not constitute an absulute proof. Science in this case is merely acting as aa safeguard against bad science - bad science is what woo pedlers are trying to do. which is to invent an explanation without any testing or experimentation - they dont even stop there, but go on to suggest its the only explanation and then charge people money for listening to their shit or pretending to heal them… seriously? I am sad that there are folks who are taken in by this shit because no one deserves to be taken advanatge of in this way. They mighto convince themselves it have been good for them, but its a lie and how can that really be good in the long term?
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IVF - OK lets start with this one - there are many couples who struggle to conceive - for most its actually simple anxiety - tehe desire is so great that the stress hormones simply kick in and fuck with the female hormones - simple relaxation and removing the pressure often sorts this - there are high numbers of couples who conceive naturally AFTER having a single IVF baby for example… your witch is propbaly just taking the place of a shrink - tell me how many infertile couples she gets to conceive who have no fertile sperm or where cancer therapy has robbed the women of fertile eggs? please show me the clinical evidence and stats and I might take you seriously for more than a second…
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The tumour - funnily enough, if you have the name of a tumour type you will find the description of its usual position and shape on the internet. How this fucking witch got that info I can not tell you, but she did and that is how she was able to describe it - the woo peddlers are a network - they share info on ‘clients’ or those who go to them - they read local news stories going way back to pickup on background, go into local shops to get info on marks… health stories are a given an d avery fertile source
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‘The local police and natinional police have used her’… have you verified this with the police or is this an ‘urban myth’? please tell me that you have called the police in question and been given confirmation this is true, because its another classic woo myth - they seed these stories to add credibilty to their con…
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Money - making a living is fine by me, but tell the fucking truth. dont lie to people about what you are selling. Its like I sold you an iPad and I said it was genuine Apple, so charged you £350, but it turned out to be a fake worth £30, would you feel I was entitled to make a living despite you being conned? In this case, its like you dont question the fact that the screen is not quite ‘retina display’ quality and it keeps crashing because you dont want to admit you have been conned and having the device is better than having nothing at all…
YOu are even spouting their own messages… ‘I dont charge…’ the classic because you feel even more beholden to give moneybelieving you are doing it of your own choice - which is a very clever way of making you belive ieven more - '‘how can she be a con if she is not charging me anything?’ seriously are you still so convinced that you wont even question the validity of their claims? Check that they are indeed all they say they are?
Seriously, if we are ill, we go to a doctor at a hospital or local surgery - because we can trust those there are qualified etc. When a crime is committed agains us we go to the police - in both the above we know the credentials … yet sadly when folks are often at their most vunerable they visit 'mediums and psychic and dont bother to check anything about them, believing all the blub on the flyer or 'what someone else has told them… sorry but there is no other word for it than gullable… suppose its why so many still send their bank details out in response to unsolicited emails…
Not sure why you’d be downvoted, perhaps it’s from beyond the grave…
… and never forget the long con… the number of folks who have spent years getting ‘free’ readings and session with the ‘local’ witch - 'who has been a great help’that are left plenty in said old ladies will is beyond teh level of mere coincidence…
SOG. I am sorry if it sound like I am belittling something you feel is important to you. But I do so with the very best intentions to stop you being conned by some seriously evil folks - they are expert in winning your trust and presenting the caring face, the empathy and support many seek when they are looking for someting or lost. It is no differnet form con artists - they are just a sub genre of evil bastards because they are messing with belief and faith, and too often vunerable folk - like the doorstep ‘builders’ who tell old folk they need a whole new roof when a few tiles are causing a leak…
I hate pissing on folks beliefs and dreams - it marks me as ‘not caring’ - but the opposite is true. I am just trying to stop these evil bastards getting a hold of folks heads with their clever lies.
I dont have a problem with your point of view Gay. It is something I have been interested in for some time and got involved with for a while but I dont expect everyone to share my interest and it is an easy subject to knock. I dont agree that the paranormal is full of people trying to rip others off but agree that it does go on. It also provides people with a lot of comfort and, I think, does a lot of good. I gave up my classes some time ago for two reasons. 1. I was making some progress but it was very slow and others were getting a lot more out of it than I was and I got frustrated. 2. I needed to get a job and get back to everyday boring life. I dont regret the time I spent with my teacher. I went to Peru and to Egypt with her and the group including an amazing trip up the Amazon and a couple of doses of ayahuasca during a massive storm in the rainforest on the Night of the Dead, which was some experience. I probably should not have read The Celestine Prophecy but there it is. I will get involved with spirtitualism again sometime as I find the whole subject fascinating. As for the evil people you mention, not one of the people I have met has been evil. They are very kind, thoughtuful, caring people who want to hep others. I am sure there are some out there who are con artsists, but I really dont believe I have met any. As for the long con. The Spirtual Church who provide free readings do not charge at all so if they are running a con it isnt very lucrative! There is also a guy whose name escapes me who is very high up in the medium world who travels the country and again, doesnt charge a penny.
Couldn’t you be accused of providing an indoctrinally “science” response?
Do you reckon the gratuitous labelling of those that disagree with your scientific method strengthens, or weakens your case? Scientifically, of course 
Seriously GA. Do your science shit. Leave room for a bit of wonder, even if you don’t subscribe to it yourself.
Again, you are missing the point completely Pap… science is leaving the door wide open for wonder as it seeks the real explanations which are often more ‘wonderful’ than the invented nonsense… the inveted nonsense that wants to be finite and leaves no room for alternative explanations - the woo peddlers and psychics are the ones allow no room for anything else - how else would they get away charging for their shit if did?
Seriously pap, Dont do your usual patronizing shit, when you are talking about something you know nothing about. Letting this go to leave room for it, is like turning your back on other criminal activity - would you turn your back on the old lady next door if she was being ripped off by dodgy builders?
…and the worst woo peddlers are the ones who say they are not like all the fakes… yes they are - what is it they say? Evil thrives whilst good men do nothing - This shit is evil because it messes with peoples heads and hearts for cash so there is no room for sentimental crap about ‘room’ for this crap.
Science is about seeking the truth no matter how simple or weird through reason and experimentation
Woo is about inventing only one explanation, without any experimentation or controls and conning people out of money by preying on hearts and minds
Tell me which is more moral or of greater value?
Well, after your hardline stance, which I admire if not agree with, I have little choice but to place you in the Des’ree camp. A ghost is the sight you’d fear most. You’d never bloody hear the end of it.
Would you rather have a piece of toast?
This topic is temporarily closed for 4 hours due to a large number of community flags.
Originally posted by @pap
Well, after your hardline stance, which I admire if not agree with, I have little choice but to place you in the Des’ree camp. A ghost is the sight you’d fear most. You never bloody hear the end of it.
Would you rather have a piece of toast?
Jeez… I would not fear a ‘ghost’ merely look for the truth behind it, rather than jumping toteh immediate conclusion that its some spirit form the afterlife…
See this is where you are so wrong - you label me as hardline, whne the scientist is the one who is open to a thousnad possibilties and explanations versus woo peddlers whoi are only interested in their invented one… who is hardline again?
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I dont know how she operates because I havent had to sue her services but maybe she does help people relax etc. A couple in our group used her and they had a child. If it works, why is there a problem?
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She had no information of the tumour type, only that it was in the brain. She is quite dyslexic and has no idea how to use a PC. I suppose that she could get someone else to help her but I spent a lot of time with her a few years ago and dont believe that to be the case.
3, It came up casually in conversation after I had known her for some time. I never felt the need to check because it wasnt a big deal. If you want to see that as part of the con so be it. There was no con Gay. I made an appointment to see her based on a friends recommendation. Someone who has know her for many years. She called her the witch as a joke. I wasnt sold anything other than what I wanted to do. There was never any pressure to do anything. The group I joined were all intelligent, curious people. I would say that any of them were gullible. Roger Taylor, the drummer from Queen went on one of her trips to Peru. I am not saying he is not gullible but I dont think he would have gone if he thought it was bollocks.
4.As for money, you pay for what you get. Classes, readings, sessions insight courses. You know what you are getting for your money.
I go to the doctor if I am unwell. Medicine is great but it doesnt always help or help as much as you would like. It doesnt hurt to get a second opinion or to seek different treatment if what you are doing doesnt work. This lady has been working for many years. She gets her business by word of mouth, no flyers or appearances at the end of a pier. If she was a fraud she would have been out of business years ago.
She is a fascinating lady. I wish you could meet her.
It is rather pointless - far smarter and more rational men have tried to debate with reason to those taken in by the woo peddlers and still it survives - because people simply want to believe… the defnece on here is the classic woo lines so it clear I am too late, you have been woo’d by the ‘kind and caring’ do gooders - who travel the country helping people (how do they travel? I bet its not the redeyenational express coach, or hitching a ride… how do they pay for thsi travel I ask you?) you see its always about the money… and until you look for the the money trail you will reamin taken in my it… sorry, that is not a belief, its sadly a fact.
Sorry SOG but listen to yourself - seriously really look at what you have just said and remove the blinkers…
- If its just help ing them to relax, it does not need woo, any trained psycologist or counsellor can help and they do - and you say 1 couple had a baby after seeing her? Fuck me I must be full of woo, because spome friends of mine had a baby 3 years ago after trying for years after attendingone of my summer BBQs… relaxed and hada good time… this is the think about ‘facts’ you say 1 couple conceived after seeing her… er well what controls do you have, how many couples saw her and did not conceive? what is your evidence base that it wasseeing her that made them fertile? Sorry its total bollocks
2, she is dyslexic and cant use a PC - she told you this yeah? and I bet she spent time with you at a computer to show you how she could not use it? Well dyslexic people get degrees and PhDs you know, they can read and write and not only that its her word that she is - also did she tell you she only knew it was in the brain? how do you know that is all she knew? listen to yourself!
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This is the funniest if it wer not so sad… and evil - of course it came up casually in conversatio, like the best con artists, they sedd this to support tehir credentials without you even knowing… the police dont use such woo stuff, sorry they dont. Please give them a call and I bet they laugh
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‘‘If she were a fraud she would be out of business’’ really, whilst there are so many out there she can con with her cunning and sly techniques, building trust and seeding ‘facts’ that noone ever checks up on. MOST operate by word of mouth - they wont waste money on flyers and the like when your clients do your marketing for you… its a classic way of operating and one that is even more effective - ‘‘yeah was not some brochure, but was recommended by…’’
Yeah would love to meet her - thing is, before I did, I could guarrantee she would know all about me and some things that you would be saying ‘how could she possibly know that’ right? seriously they are that good at digging, like fucking private detectives - only now we make it so much easier, with FB and twitter, go back in someones timeline and pick a little fact that they will have forgotten they even posted 3 or 4 years ago… smudge a little with a bit of ‘guessing and inuendo and’ fuck me I’m psychic… they all operate like that SOG… all of them and its sad that they use your trust and desire to believe…
Now, I do not think there are such thing as ghosts. I do not mind the idea and would not mind seeing them if they did exist, it would not be something I would be scared of (if with others). Well come on really, what is there to be scared of?
But saying this, me and a few mates stayed out all night at about the age of 15/16 and at one point that night we stayed over the common. At one stage we were near the play area next to the paddling pool just over and back from the Cowards. We were just sat around in the early hours of the morning and looking back into the common and the little wooded area, where a tree truck was laid on the floor. Now at this point it was very quiet and all at the same time we got up and legged it, as a grey shape was moving across the top of the log, it was the right size for an average sized adult and about 50 yards away. The shape was a grey colour (quite light) and stood out from the pitch black background. As I said we all noticed it and got up and ran. About 4/5 of us.
Tell you what shit me up at the time, but bit older now and think if it happened again, I would be more intrigued than scared.
Fucking barn owls
You were smaller then
RSPB volunteers. As long as it’s not for commercial use.