Hey @KRG I’ve just sullied myself by actually reading what Boris said in the rest of the article and, if you ignore the bit at the start, a lot of it has major resonance.
I would have liked the Political Scrapbook piece to have spent a bit more time debunking what Brois had to say instead of dimissing the article due to a few, at best, misguided lines!!
That was the part that highlighted the point I was making though, BBB 
I have doubts about how misguided it was. I know he presents himself as a sort of lovable, clumsy, oaf - but I don’t buy it. I think he’s much more deliberate than that, he’s an intensely intelligent man.
Coupled with the Mayoral campaign he has played a part of, I’m less convinced this is an accident.
We like the occasional row, we also like taking the piss out of each other. The latter usually wins.
Then he totally negated the whole point of his commentry with that one statement. Shame really.
And, yes, he is cleverer than he lets on.
Originally posted by @KRG
Originally posted by @Bearsy
*sigh* saintsweb could’ve got 20 pages of content out of that dispute. You cunts both backed down in the space of two posts.
We like the occasional row, we also like taking the piss out of each other. The latter usually wins.
KRG is my punishment for being me at an earlier stage of my forum career, Bear.
Everyone knows that.
Not really impressed with Obama’s spiel today. Back of the queue for trade deals, eh?
He should remember the golden rule. People are not governments. The US may be able to push the UK government around. Not so much the people, for reasons we’ve discussed before.
Interesting. Not fifteen years ago Blair was lying through his teeth to allow the US to prosecute its much sought after invasion of Iraq.
It is a special relationship 
Perhaps you should have listened more closely, and given rather more thought to what was said. Obama’s comments about a trade deal between a post-EU UK and the US were made in response to a question about his right to talk about the issue of the UK’s membership of the EU in the first place. As he put it, those pushing for us to leave the EU are perfectly happy to give assurances about what the US will do in the event that we do indeed leave - they blandly state that we will easily negotiate trade agreements with lots of countries, the US among them. So why shouldn’t he comment on the issue?
Obama simply made the point that the US would indeed be happy to negotiate a bilaeral trade deal with a post-EU UK, but that this would not be their priority. And why would it be, given that their energies are devoted to negotiating a far bigger deal with a far bigger market right now? Would you expect the US to ditch negotiations with the EU in order to start them with the UK?
I give no credence whatever to the special relationship; it’s always been one-sided and it still is. But then it’s always been far more about our desperate need to see ourselves as a world power than anything else.
The US has never been speedy about negotiating trade deals, least of all free ones. They do not have a free trade deal with either the EU or the UK, and anecdotal I know, but as someone that has made all my money from the US in the last nine years, I’m not seeing the lack of a free trade deal as a particular block, nor have I found the lack of a political union to be a barrier to my prosecuting business there. I know people that have had gripes from immigration when they’re going out 20 times a year, especially if they go through the same airport, but it’s mostly “this is an abuse of the ESTA system”. Which it is, a bit. You can get more robust visas.
I’ve moaned about the negativity of the Remain campaign, but a Brexit is not inconsistent with my long term hopes for this country. You make an excellent point about _our _desperate need to cling onto power. As the emphasis probably shows, I’m not entirely onboard with our. I’m not sure I agree with the contemporary definition of power either. The US has tried implementing hard power for ages. It has gotten them military supremacy, but do they have the respect of the world? I would argue not.
I think our place in the world relies on being the ultimate soft power. We are uniquely placed to achieve it. You could argue that Switzerland has always been more neutral than everybody else, but there is a perceived self-interest about that neutrality, and a constant debate on who gets to be Swiss. You could proclaim France as the cultural capital of the world, and have a shitload of supporting evidence, but you’d be crazy not to consider its far right-wing element, making headway despite numerous electoral tricks to suppress it, or the very separate way it tends to treat its minorities.
We are a post-colonial power that has been there, done that, and mostly successfully dealt with waves of different cultures, part of my own included. We’re an ancient people by most countries’ standards. We are, warts and all, an elder statesman of this planet.
Also, amazingly, we mostly get on, despite being comprised of all sorts from all places.
The questions then, are where is this elder statesman is right now, and where is this elder statesman is best placed?
Obama thinks we’re best in, “leading the EU”. Anyone with any recent knowledge of EU history will know that is not the case. The Conservative Party has been broken over the issue since the full implications of Maastricht were realised. Both sides of the debate have mentioned the France and Germany bloc as an insurmountable obstacle. How can we be leading the EU if that’s the case?
That is before we mention the single currency, which we never really wanted any part of, and haven’t seen too much benefit from. We’ve had to spend taxpayer money bailing out the system and frankly, I remember getting better value out of pesetas than I ever got out of Euros in Spain. It was billed as “hallo, would you like to make everything handy with one single currency?”. It was actually “we’re centralising the issue of currency, and pretending all economies are the same”. Greece was the result.
I think our voice might be clearer if we were independent of the big power blocs, and I don’t fear it.
Hedge End bloke is at it again!
The special relationship is the most one side booty call known to man, they want us in there for their interests.
Can we all agree that?
Right then, why should we be there on the US pleas when they would never consider it themselves (law of the seas).
We are being dictated to and threatened by our friends when in fact they aren’t, nation states that pursue a nation first policy (all do and this is why the EU will always fail on a political level) have only nations for their policy or against it.
Obama is no friend of the UK, he is pursuing a policy of interest on behalf of his nation nothing more.
Bloke down the pub said, that bloke on newsnight said, that we’d be 2 Trillion Dollars better off if we Brexit. Obv this is a trusted source, so I’m now thinking of doing a Brexit. I could use a cpl of trillion dollar at this moment srs, my credit card bill is getting srs.
This is what supposed unity does and this is what organised labour has been fighting against for for years, nothing to do with colour or race as the ignorant love to throw at them/us but the driving down of wages and rights.
This is what the EU will do as will TTIP, a race to the bottom and rights hard fought by the unions will be eroded.
I feel kinda dirty. I don’t agree with the billing of this vid, nor do I like the little UKIP ad at the end, but the BBC report that constitutes all but 10 seconds of this vid is worth a look.
The naysayers will deny deny deny, their programmed mentality can’t compute this, its not in their dna to retract and change, they and the EU are wedded until whoever’s death comes first.
I’ve just found the whole Obama intervention so manufactured and disingenuous. We don’t have a trade deal with the US, yet that hasn’t stopped Britain from becoming the single largest foreign investor in the US, nor has it prevented US firms from investing here. Furthermore, the trade deal that the US is looking to do, TTIP, is a piece of crap with the main aim of strengthening corporations. We would do well to swerve it.
Secondly, Obama doesn’t give a clean fuck about what it is the British people want. The hypocrisy of his position has already been pointed out. The US has shied away from joining organisations that would involve any ceding of sovereignty. Why should we accept what the US never would?
Finally, you can feel Downing Street all over this, even down to the anglicised “queue”. Honestly think it’s a lot closer than the polls are indicating at the moment. Cameron is proper in the shit, tried to bring on a star quarterback. The result has been something of a fumble.
That fucking jumped up cunt Obama can kiss my fucking sweaty bum hole. He is a cunt.
I will be fucking voting out.
The Eu is cunting fucked.
Goat boy is discovering that drinking after long distance events somewhat accelerates pissedness
true
Barrack Obama has about as much star quality as the grumbleweeds did back in the 80’s, he is shit and will always be so, he is going and he has acheived nothing in office and has been stifled by all. The weakest President I have ever known.
