TBF we’ve been told everywhere, and repeatedly on this site the strikes weren’t about pay or anything like that, it was about what was happening to the NHS under the Tories, so if an agreement to move forward has been come to then that MUST be true, surely?
Either that, or we’re going to see the Junior Doctor’s going against the BMA.
Yeah, that’ll be it - strike averted = complete change of policy.
Presumably this is to wind up Pap so I’ll leave him to it - he’s probably madly typing away now…
You two enjoy yourselves. 
Well, as I said, we’ve been told the strike was not to do with pay, it was about the way the NHS was being run. It probably isn’t a complete volte face, but I would assume there must be safeguards against the worries that they are trying to make the NHS fail.
Originally posted by @Rallyboy
Yeah, that’ll be it - strike averted = complete change of policy.
Presumably this is to wind up Pap so I’ll leave him to it - he’s probably madly typing away now…
Aw fuck, is that what it was? Couldn’t you tell me before, FFS?
Genuinely thought he was going for a couple of Sotonians Records there.
- Most specious reasoning
- Most obvious wind-up attempt
You two enjoy yourselves.
He can play with himself.
As I thought, no answer for it. This is why I pushed my opinion so vehemently in the first place, and I’m happy to see that there is no argument to be had.
As said numerous times before Pap, you’re ever so good at deflection when you’re a beaten man 
I have spoken with loads of people over the weekend that were simply parroting headlines or TV news bulletins. It’s frustrating. I prefer to see independent opinions.
While I’m certain that Cherts feels he is doing this by providing a competing viewpoint, I’d love his stuff a lot more if he put a bit more analysis into the headlines he’s using in his arguments. Honestly, the arguments he put forward in support of his case are pretty easy to dismantle. I did think “wind-up”.
Is he serious when he presents “they’re trying to destroy the NHS” and “they’re fucking up junior doctors pay” as two competing, mutually exclusive outcomes? Common sense would indicate that both are possible, and indeed, that one can help the other. More on that later
The BMA specificity doesn’t help. The government has a history of demonising opponents to delegitimise them, and they’re doing it here. This is a dispute between an employer and a union or representative body.
There isn’t a lot of union representation in the IT trade. It’s not part of the culture yet, so perhaps Cherts has not seen an industrial dispute up close and personal. I’ve seen three.
It was all standard negotiating, far as I could tell - both sides take the piss. Both sides go in knowing what they want, but asking for much more because they know they’ll be traded down. At some point, compromise is achieved somewhere in the middle and everyone moves on.
The claim that the NHS is being privatised isn’t an extreme claim. It’s backed up by numbers, and you’ll see a slow upward creep of contracts awarded to private firms from the moment the Tories took joint office with the Lib Doomed.
The junior doctors strike could well be a means to accelerate this process. Fuck all the doctors off to the point when they leave, then send the private sector in to pick up the slack. The same thing is probably driving the withdrawal of the nurse bursery.
Hunt doesn’t see a need for a National Health Service, something he is proving in both word and deed. He is privatising the NHS piecemeal, sacked midwifes, elevated the barrier to entry harder for nurses, inspiring junior doctors to leave in record numbers, which will only get worse after imposition.
As an aside, I really don’t think that Cherts is giving imposition any consideration from the shoes of a junior doctor. What a fucking precedent! If you lay down for this, what the fuck will he try next?
From the patient perspective, Jeremy Hunt is the worst possible person to run the NHS, which is precisely why he has control of it. His plan is to reduce public confidence in the NHS to the point where they are prepared to let it go, prepared to embrace the promised land of private health provision.
When you pause to think about what actually has to happen for public confidence to drop, it’s pretty fucking sickening. Don’t want to sensationalise, but what do you think happens when we have less midwives, less nurses, and less doctors? The rich will have the cash to go private, but I reckon a lot of poorer families could be suffering needless tragedy and loss.
Any argument that supports that cunt or anything he’s doing has gotta be a wind-up, right? 
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Whilst we’re on the subject, this is quite concerning
as is this (it relates to where I live but I don’t think we’re unique in being about to face this situation)
I’ve just been watching an article on BBC South Today about the plan to close 20 pharmacies in Buckinghamshire. Prestwood Pharmacy was featured. I think, if you’re interested, you can pick it up on iPlayer later.
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You will notice that the media is very light on what detail is contained within the agreement.
It came following an 8 day talk between the BMA and ACAS, which was a breakthrough in itself as up until then there was no negotiation. The governments standpoint up until then was that it wouldn’t negotiate the contract would stand and we’d either have to like it or leave.
I don’t belive that you are allowed to strike for principle so I suspect ‘the pay’ was cited as the reason to make it legal but most withdrew themselves on principle. I’ve mentioned the reasons in countless long and tedious posts so I won’t repeat.
I suspect there must have been some significant climb downsfrom the government side but whether or not they will enter the public domain to save face I’m not sure.
There has been a vigil outside the department of health since day one, staffed by off duty doctors with a chair marked for Jeremy to sit and talk. He never took us up on the offer. Just as he did when culture secretary and the whole Murdoch fiasco , he hid ( not in a tree this time) and took a car to Whitehall instead ( then claimed 23p expenses for the petrol, I shit you not) which is a few yards away.
Its early days, I’ll let you know the feeling from this end as it unflolds if you like
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You know what, I am just glad they have come to a settlement that the govt can accept and that the BMA leadership feel that they can present to their members.
There have been no winners in this.
The only victory to be celebrated is that the government relented and decided to talk. Just as they should have done to start with to stop the whole thing escalating. They called our bluff and said we’d never strike. They crossed a line
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No doubt Jeremy Hunt will be about later apologising for his appalling performance in this escapade.
Shortly after Gideon apologises for his excuse for a budget.
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Originally posted by @CB-Saint
There have been no winners in this.
I suppose the govt saved a couple of days wages, so there’s that. Plus some sick ppl prob died which will save on further healthcare + benefits. Prob what they’ve done is taken this pot of saved money and shared it amongst the Jr Doctors, in order to End the Dispute, so it’s a bit Win Win for Everyone hopefully.
They were in talks for three years FFS, the doctors went on strike, the government threatened to impose the contract and then both sides got round a table. It takes two to tango.
What gets on my tits is all the doctors with their ‘Save the NHS’ placards. This wasn’t about destroying or saving the NHS, it was about the government wanting a 7 day service.
If you’re going to reproduce someone else’s lines, I reckon Arnie is a better bet than Jeremy Hunt.
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Even Hunt conceeds its been about far more than that
Hmmm, do I believe this from the Huffington Post??
Junior doctors’ union leaders wanted to “draw out” the strikes with Jeremy Huntover new pay and working conditions, a leak of their WhatsApp messages has revealed.
Senior executives in the British Medical Association (BMA) exchanged messages saying they wanted “punctuated [industrial action] for a prolonged period” and to tie “the DH [Department of Health] up in knots for the next 16-18 months”.
Weekend pay was “the only real red line” for junior doctors, according to the messages, despite the BMA insisting it was about patient safety.
The Health Service Journal revealed Junior Doctors Committee (JDC) chair Dr Johann Malawana wrote to colleagues that the “best solution” to his long-running feud with Hunt might be playing out the dispute for so long it would “force” the government “to impose [the contact] against our support”.
The allegations about the BMA’s plans for dealing with NHS medics’ contract negotiations run contrary to previous statements.
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