I’m interested and passionate about my work, not just in the tech, but also in the business it serves, the people that business employs. I’ve had jobs that I’ve dreaded going to, but the trick is to mix personal interests with professional ones. I’d be dicking about on a computer somewhere regardless.
Again though, we have a revealing post from Cherts, not just about himself, but perhaps the entire field of project management 
Exactly. If I was smashing in the back doors of some pneumatic titted milf on the film set of a smut movie, i think i could safely fall into the category of having a (literal) passion for my job, but i defy anyone to proclaim a passion for my actual job, which today consists of measuring a foul water drainage installation to a building site.
Later I will move onto block paving though, so I could be living the fucking dream by then.
Pap, there’s certainly nothing wrong whatsoever with enjoying your work. If you really have managed to get paid to do something you enjoy then congratulations and more power to you.
What frustrates me no end is that when people are earning a pittance with a high cost of living, and find that so many things are essentially prohibited from them because of a lack of money, it gets hand-waved away by invariably wealthy people telling poor people not to worry and that money doesn’t matter. Reality is, for a lot of people, it does.
Just to give one personal example, I ended things with my girlfriend a couple of months back because she was up in York, I’m down South and we can’t afford to maintain the relationship. We still chat on the phone, we’re still good mates, we’d frankly almost certainly still be together if we both lived in the same city earning decent coin, but we’re both too poor to keep the relationship going. We can only see each other on weekends and it costs a good £60 or so to go from London to York and that’s with a young person’s railcard. You can get cheaper tickets if you travel at massively off-peak times but obviously you have to head up on a Friday night/back on a Sunday night so that’s out the window. Once there, you want to actually do fun stuff together. You can enjoy a pretty frugal time together (cooking a meal, watching TV, perhaps going for a run or a walk in the park or drive into the countryside) but its not free.
I’ve lost count of the number of times some 40-year-old will look at young people and say “Well we didn’t earn much and we got by - and we were happy. Plus, after a few years you earn more and move up the ladder”
And its like; “Dude, you just said it. You were happy when you didn’t earn much. You did move up the ladder after a few years.”
I was down at the pub in Tooting last night playing poker and watching the football. There’s this old geezer there I sometimes talk to about football and life and bollocks and whatnot. “Son, you can do wotcha loik son! you dahn need tah start proper urnin’ til’ ya’ loik…firty!”
He has a few stories about how he used to work at the post office and bunk off sick about one or two days a week back in the seventies.
If I miracle the job with PwC I will be happy because I will have more money. If people honestly can’t understand or relate to this then they’re in a position of blissful ignorance which I envy immensely.
With this discussion there needs to be a fairly string distinction between having adequate to live on and having adequate to afford a lifestyle that you feel is right for you to be happy.
First up, i would say its nigh on impossible to be ‘happy’ in your job if it pays insufficient to afford the basic needs and what we would consider a REAL living wage. Scraping around for money for food is not going to make you happy in your work as the anxiety and stress will remove any pleasure you might have from it… problem is many today believe basic needs includes a material goods and a social life…
It becomes more complex once you go beyond this basic living standard. After this it becomes about what lifestyle you can afford and how much that lifestyle means to you. If you want holidays, wide screen TVs, eating out and a social life, car, and other material pocessions, then most people will need to do a job for money rather than a vocation or something they’re passionate about. Its how much emphasis you put on these materialistic things that often prevents many people from doing what what they love and end updoing what they need - but the fact its a choice is frequently forgotten
I friend of mine has a family, yet lovse his job making concert grade classical guitars for professional musicians…depsite being world class with his instruments selling upward of $8000, he probably makes 30k a year tops - his family enjoy a simpler life, no big tech, no ew cars or expensive luxuries… but they ARE happy and his kids are some some of the nicest I have met without desperate needs for ipads and phones…
For others, they will feel they have no choice because the desire for a certain lifestyle is stronger than the desire to be happy in your work…and whatever you may believe that is a choice you make.
One thing I have noticed is that many today believe that a lifestyle is their right… well that is only because the last 40 years has seen us bombarded with goods and serices and social expectations - recent generations have become conditioned into thinking its a natural part of life, as opposed to the reality - that for 99% who want a lifestyle it will mean doing something they have no passion for or in many cases actually dislike… but there is always a choice.
Except I am not, and never have been a Project Manager!!
£30k a year is a fucking good salary and above the national average. Especially out of London. It would certainly be enough for me. I’ve got next to no interest in material goods, gizmos and gadgets. I don’t have any desire to own a car for now and would probably be comfortable without one until my mid-thirties. Between 2011 and 2015 I didn’t leave the country once for a holiday. All I’m hoping for is just enough to muddle me along and live independently. There are tonnes of young people who feel the same.
Well you couldn’t be further from the truth but don’t let that stop you from spinning a yarn.
Money is clearly a consideration in what I do for a living. It’s not all about the money though - in my case.
And that is ABSOLUTELY fine. As I said to Pap, if you’ve managed to do a job that isn’t just for the money and does give you fulfillment as well as enjoyment then fair play and good luck to you.
All I’m asking for is a little understanding that when you’re broke as piss, money_ is_ your main consideration.
We all want a job that gives us a barrow load of cash for the minimum possible effort and responsibility, meaning we have lots of time for the important things in life, like spending time with family, healthy outdoor pursuits or rubbing a chessegrater up and down the shaft.
Originally posted by @MrTrampoline
And that is ABSOLUTELY fine. As I said to Pap, if you’ve managed to do a job that isn’t just for the money and does give you fulfillment as well as enjoyment then fair play and good luck to you.
All I’m asking for is a little understanding that when you’re broke as piss, money_ is_ your main consideration.
Jesus, you come across a little patronising for somebody of such limited life experience. Most people in their 40s and 50s have been there and done it so you might want to wind your neck in a little.
Well I’m sorry if you think I sound patronising but if you come up with such naive nonsense then being talked down to is something you’re probably going to have to get used to.
EDIT: ‘40s and 50s and been there and done it’. Talk about proving my point! If you’re 40 or 50 then the year was 1991-2001 when you were 25. Does that little fact strike you as significant at all? What was the average salary and what was the average rental price back then?
If you read my post objectively you’ll see I didn’t write (or imply) a great deal. You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about something. I think I’ll leave you to it.
P.S. You’re coming across as a bit of an arsehole
You began by posting ‘Maybe some jobs aren’t about the money - just a thought’. Seriously, was that supposed to be constructive advice? What sort of a reaction were you looking for?
Mr Trampolines post doesn’t read as patronising in any way.
Yours on the other hand, jeez.
Its funny. What I asked him wasn’t even a sarcastic or rhetorical remark. I’m deadly serious in that I literally don’t _get _what’s being asked of me when he makes the point that, eh-hem, maybe work isn’t ‘all about the money’ for some people.
I mean, how does the fact that (obviously) there is a small, select group for whom work isn’t ‘all about the money’ not immediately strike you as an extremely fortunate luxury that’s afforded to very few people? What actionable advice am I being given? What is my reaction to that point supposed to be?
I love how the following post has been downvoted as well:
“£30k a year is a fucking good salary and above the national average. Especially out of London. It would certainly be enough for me. I’ve got next to no interest in material goods, gizmos and gadgets. I don’t have any desire to own a car for now and would probably be comfortable without one until my mid-thirties. Between 2011 and 2015 I didn’t leave the country once for a holiday. All I’m hoping for is just enough to muddle me along and live independently. There are tonnes of young people who feel the same.”
Yeah, what an arsehole I am. What a horrible person.
No idea who downvoted that post, was not me. But it does suggest you maybe need to adjust your salary/living radar. 30k a year for a family of 4 is NOT a ‘fucking good salary’ - my friends are happy only because they dont covert much. He gets to see his kids whenever they are at home and can work on his own terms… but he has to do 70-80 hours a week. But he loves his job so its not a burden. He has made that choice to follow his love and not a ‘carreer’ path and he is happier for it. He has NOT achieved that happinees because he has reached some mythical 40-50 plateau of decent salary, but because of a choice he made.
I recall your very first post or one of them as a bit of a whinge about how you felt it was now unfair to only find jobs that paid 20-25k in London and you were a result forced to live at home… some on here, myself included found this a little incredulous because it was exactly the same for most 20 somethings… and you had your own solution planned anyway which was to learn and then apply for entry in to a big 4 accountancy firm… so I am not sure what your original problem was… If some on here have been a little harsh its because whilst we would all applaud you for going for it and the effort you have put into your prep and genuinely wish you success, I and others cant help but observe that you see this as the ONLY route to happiness… and with the benefit of experience and age, I and others are merely suggesting its not.
You are perfectly entitled to set your own aspirations with respect to earnings and lifestyle choices. There is no wrong or right just personal choice. But please dont assume that its the only choice. Money is not everything, and its usually only after 20-25 years and having missed your kids grow up and been pretty miserable in jobs that pay well but have no respect for life balance that you regret thinking you had no other choice…
Its above the national median wage. It is by actual metrics a ‘good’ salary. If you’ve chosen to have a family of four on £30k then that’s your choice. Families of four don’t just happen. The causality of having children is fairly indisputable. Hell I’d love to be a family man but right now I sincerely feel like there’s a decent chance it will be a door closed to me purely down to finances.
2) “my friends are happy only because they dont covert much. He gets to see his kids whenever they are at home and can work on his own terms… but he has to do 70-80 hours a week. But he loves his job so its not a burden. He has made that choice to follow his love and not a ‘carreer’ path and he is happier for it. He has NOT achieved that happinees because he has reached some mythical 40-50 plateau of decent salary, but because of a choice he made”
How much, precisely, do he and his partner earn? What does he do?
Nope. I said I couldn’t move out on my (at the time) current job, which paid £21k. You’ve stretched that to ‘£20-25k’ which is a bracket I don’t think I’ve ever used. You’re putting words in my mouth.
Seriously? Average wage in London for those in their 20s please? I wonder if its higher or lower than £21k? I’m pretty sure I’m below average (unemployed now anyway).
Incidentally, I’ve never once complained about my low salary in that I’ve never said that there’s any sort of ‘injustice’ taking place. Its a market rate for the job and that’s fair enough. All I’m asking for is some understanding about why someone in my position would seek to increase their salary.
Come on, seriously, I’ve given you a tangible example of how my low salary has essentially cost me my relationship _purely due to lack of money. _Even a ‘lol-sucks-to-be-you’ reaction would carry greater empathy.
OK OK OK OK OK OK OK.
OK.
OK.
Whatever our disagreements, maybe we can relate to one another, to at least some extent, on this very point. Please bear with me.
Right now. I am not happy. I am actively unhappy. To the point where being not unhappy would be frankly, an absolutely fucking massive improvement. I. Just. Want. To. Be. Normal.
All I’m asking for is that things like moving out, one day having a family, getting married and maintaining functional, adult friendships aren’t closed off to me purely because I earn so little (which, right now, is exactly the case).
Now granted, I’m not starving. I could easily have things 100 times worse and be a refugee from Syria or the DR Congo fleeing war or abject poverty. I’m very fortunate to be from a standard middle-class family that won’t kick me out and for that I’m massively grateful. I just don’t want to have to deal with my mother crying because her son is a failure (again).
I don’t know. Maybe I sound a bit dramatic. I’m an expressive guy and I wear my heart on my sleeve. I’m a bit of an ‘anti-Brit’ (as one American girl I used to know once called me), but I’m just trying to communicate my situation as best I can. I just want to find a job where I get enough money to function as a normal adult and that really is all.
I changed jobs when i split from my ex. Took a financial hit, but freed myself time wise, so i could be at the school when it finished. Never regretted it as i was involved in my kids life so much more. Your mate understands the true value of life, I applaud him.
Mr T, look how little the people that really keep this country on it’s feet earn. You’re a tory so you surely accept that you’ll just have to move up north(could get back with your girlfriend then) if you don’t earn big, as that marks you out as one of life’s losers(they may want your dental records as well).
As TCK, Chutters and even Cherts have said, if you really don’t want all the consumer bollocks, it is possible to live happily on a lesser wage.
Hope you get the job, but hope you tell them to stick it even more(don’t do this unless you have some idea about who you really want to be). Good luck, it’s a fucker of a choice.
“You’re a tory so you surely accept that you’ll just have to move up north(could get back with your girlfriend then) if you don’t earn big, as that marks you out as one of life’s losers”
Nope. I’m not a Tory, not Labour, not anything. I’d gladly vote Labour if I felt they’d improve the situation for young people like me.
And ‘life’s losers’. Honestly, I’ve just spent time trying to persuade people how lucky they are if they’re able to support themselves doing what they honestly enjoy. How do you square that with me supposedly ‘marking them out as life’s losers’?
‘Not earning big’
Another straw-man. I’m not talking about ‘not earning big’ I’m talking about not earning enough to…y’know…function.
“As TCK, Chutters and even Cherts have said, if you really don’t want all the consumer bollocks, it is possible to live happily on a lesser wage.”
Of how much, pray tell?
I was the one who said ‘£30k was a fucking good salary’ and ran into disagreement on that one.