I can do this all day. And I will.
Just for a bit of variety though.
I can do this all day. And I will.
Just for a bit of variety though.
Could have gone in any number of threads.
I’ve half followed this thread, without taking too much notice of the actual content. The reason for that is it seems there are a few main protagonists who seem more interested in point scoring than actually reasoning or actually acknowledging the others point of few. And I can sort of see why, as they pretty much all come across as obnoxious twats…lol
If I was still in the UK I would probably have voted for brexit - but I can acknowledge that the ramifications of leaving are going to be huge.
Of all the comments Pap has made for leaving, the only one I would really take issue with is the myth that Britain is close to full employment. Working a handful of hours each week, or being on a zero hour contract does NOT constitute full time employment and the figures put out by the government are the worst forms of statistical manipulation.
With regards to the comments from all the “remainders”, I just want to unashamedly copy from a post i read on Facebook earlier. I haven’t verified the facts presented, but I’m pretty confident that at least the majority of it is accurate. Here it is…and I look forward to anyone able to refute the facts (although I’m not interested in actually debating them, so save your breath if you’re looking for any further comments on the subject from me).
So…here’s the bit where I just copy and paste…
Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army’s new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU ‘regeneration’ grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it’s Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.
Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn’t paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don’t even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.
I haven’t detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don’t even go there.
I haven’t mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.
Find something that’s gone the other way, I’ve looked and I just can’t. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven’t read the party manifesto of The European Peoples’ Party.
2/ You haven’t had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
3/ You don’t think it matters.
Nice post, the only one that I can find that is factually incorrect is this one. Metal Box was in Poole, not Bournemouth, and is now a bloody big housing estate!!
Fair point, Smiler.
Thing is, when the labour market contracts, terms and conditions for those still around improve. This has been true since the bubonic plague killed two thirds of Europe, and will prove true when we exit the European Union.
It happens because there is genuine competition for labour, and someone that doesn’t like their present terms and conditions can easily find someone offering better terms and conditions.
There was never really an option for the British worker to pipe up about that following EU enlargement. Bosses just said “we’ll get a Polish matey in, init”, leading to the lowest wage growth in this country since Victorian times.
About fucking time someone told him to shut up.
Not sure the adds to the debate and desire to keep things civil really, but hey ho,
The problem with the the Cut and paste job is that as with many of these posts, it presents a rather biassed POV. I will not bother to look up all the facts but a couple of points to add some balance to it.
You need to differentiate between grants, Loans, and European central bank loans to private industries that need to be repaid vs development grants that are given to rural depressed areas to improve local economies with in member states
Many of the companies that you mention faced a choice between moving with LOANs (See Dyson) or becoming uncompetitive given within the UK manufacturing market… the options were to stay and have it coast £800 a vacuum cleaner and hope they can sell enough or manufacture abroad. The option that Pap seems to think will now be forthcoming will be big grants and loans from the UK government to subsidise whole industries… just like 1970 all over again… not going to happen.
There is no mention of all the grants and loans used to bring industry and companies the other way… plenty of EU cash has been spent on us too, but less as we pay LESS in.
This last point is more a philosophical one… The whole point of the EU is integration. It means as that for it to work properly, there needs to be much better economic alignment between nations, more equality in opportunity, more equality in social provision etc… more equality in economic growth. Now if you don’t like the idea of that, fair enough, but that is the point of The EU grants looking to to support economic growth in more deprived markets… if it works, migration wont ever be an issue, as folks WILL find good opportunities in Poland, Slovakia, Romania etc… as they do now in Germany, France, Spain, or UK… Its the bit that is forgotten, that this is the point.
It makes me laugh when folks go on and on and say the EU is not good for the UK… Its not meant to be about just us, but the EU is meant to be about what is best for the EU as a whole. Many Europeans feel that is a worthwhile ideal, some dont that is true, but to suggest its shit for Britain therefore it must be shit, is naive and also churlish. We will now see whether the benefits of being in were better than those of being out… but the ones who will suffer with this ‘project’ will be the poorest… I am however sure of one thing. If its worse (which I believe it will be) , Brexiteers will find something else to blame as opposed to it being our leaving the EU…
Best for the EU as a whole?
Try best for the technocrats that currently have the keys to the kingdom, or the business owners that get to keep wages low, and if that doesn’t work, get a loan to move the entire operation out of the EU altogether.
Also, please don’t speak for me on my behalf. At no stage have I said that the UK government should subsidise whole industries.
You’re annoying enough when just talking shit. Let’s not ratchet that up with outright lies.
It would be easy to get annoyed by your naive yet patronising attitude, but you are simply not worth it… you just behave like a wannabe cyberbully, without the self awareness to realise how transparent you are… it is actually a little sad, I feel sorry for you, seriously…
Mate, you could seriously start a fight in an empty room.
You can feel sorry for me all you like. You can say I’m not worth it. Any neutral observer will read this thread from first to last and watch you getting played with like a toy, all the while rocking an inexplicable and quite unjustified sense of your own moral and intellectual superiority.
I don’t feel sorry for you, though.
You should add that you hope so,… I am sure there are some who will be smirking away and agreeing with you, but the very fact that you seem comfortable with ‘playing’ anybody says all there is to about your warped character… I suspect however that there are plenty who don’t see it as one sided as you do…
You are fucking obsessively deluded (and please don’t get all shirty again about the use of that word, look it up in the dictionary first) - when I left last time, you made a huge thing about it and posted about 5 times on how I had made a big thing about it… lols - when the only reason I wanted a locked account was to avoid being tempted back when you acted like a cunt again… then more obsession demonstrated over on the Beef thread to try and get be to play your silly games… as I say a deluded obsessive who seems happiest when he has somehow ‘out trolled’ some unknown folk on a small web forum…
…go spend some fucking time with your family… you know, be fucking normal for a change.
Yes, yes. It’s all me. I’m the one that’s making you say all these idiotic things.
Nothing to do with a lack of your own self-control. Is it harder without your little pal backing you up?
Hahah who? you are such a fucking child… desperate for the last word and the attention…
Your man @Chertsey-Saint.
The only person on the planet apart from Theresa May that supports Theresa May’s deal.
Haha - Cherts? we don’t even agree on many things, but that is frankly irrelevant… we do both agree that you act like a dummy spitting dickhead whenever you are needing too make your proclamations about everything and someone disagrees… the patronising martyr to a cause, who when he gets a bit oaf a bloody nose now and then ,come back with ‘I have more drinking buddies than you’ or ‘are you pissed again you lush…?’
Strange how i only have these issues with you…
Nah, you’d have issues with someone if it weren’t me. Remember your times with Turkish?
I have to take my hat off to that man. I can only get bum screaming notes out of you. That bloke played you like you were a stradivarius.
Like I said you keep out doing yourself. Just when I think you cant act like a bigger cunt, you go and surprise me. Scraping the fucking barrel with stuff that happened 4 years ago aint ya? Like I said before, how fucking strange and fucking odd you are if that floats your boat… you keep bringing it up as if you’re desperate to please him with your second rate trolling - you keep fucking digging, you make yourself look more of an obsessed deluded cunt every time you post.
I am well happy to admit, I don’t get trolling and can be wound in as easy as you like… but lump all that shot in with twats that like the fucking Kardashians, and media fucking obsessed celebrity - fucking vacuous fucktards who are a waste of time and space… go fill your boots mate if thats the sort of stuff makes you happy… you are just a fucking deluded narcissist with an odd sense of what is ‘clever’…
…next your’ll be telling me your dad is bigger than mine…
Yeah, but that’s your opinion.
And I don’t respect it.