The thing is, there is no such thing as a “deal”. It’s either hard Brexit, or the May deal. This is the confusion all along, that we can get a deal, we are fitting into an inflexible legal framework. There is no deal to be had.
The thing is, if Corbyn got in, he’d come back with exactly the same deal.
The only way Brexit will happen now is if a leave member of the Tory party wins the inevitable election, and will lead us off a cliff into the ether…
It is a Brexit deal that will not get throught the house because the people that “brokered” it do not want to get it through the house.
It will be used to eventually say
“ well we could not get a done deal through the house”
“There is no deal we are staying in.”
It’s why hard Brexit is the only thing worth doing, and the only thing that meets what David Cameron described as the consequences of leaving.
It’s far better than May’s deal.
Then it needs to be a Tory in charge next, as Labour would not allow Corbyn to hard Brexit.
Amber Rudd becomes DWP Sec… Lets hope she is true to form and sends disabled claimants to the Caribbean. Lovely at this time of year.
So many cunts resigning that May has to re-employ cunts previously ‘sacked’ for being too cunty.
I think that applies to the Conservatives as well. The hard core hard Brexiters are in a minority in the party. I can’t see the EU going along with a re negotiation, they made it quite plain yesterday that wouldn’t be happening. So it’s May’s deal or no deal. What a complete dog’s breakfast.
There should be another referendum, it has become blindingly obvious that people were sold a false prospectus, the leave campaign was based on a pack of lies. Let’s be honest, nobody knew what they were voting for, surely for such a momentous decision there should be an informed electorate. The only logical and commonsense thing to do is to put it to the people, no more lies and fantastical promises which were the stuff of fantasy, If or when we leave the EU this is how the country will change. The first referendum was only advisory anyway, the hard Brexiters always ignore that. In a sane and logical world any vote, leave or remain, should be based on the electorate casting their vote in the full knowledge of what they are voting for. Won’t happen of course, sadly our political masters no longer do logic and sanity.
Happen to agree… they have been going on and on about the ‘will of the people’ for so long, its almost as if they protest too much… that they are frightened of letting the ‘people’ have a say on this deal… why was it it democratic to let people vote without knowing what the fuck they were voting for and yet its anti-democratic’ to let the ‘people’ vote on something when they do? Its like having a general election without publicising any manifesto…
I think public vote on this deal would solve a lot… because its obvious all parties are fucked by this as they play internal games - Tories, Labour, Lib dead, all the fucking same shit, different party…
Typically fucking party politicians… only trusting the people to vote blindly and not when there is something concrete on the table. I believe they are just fucking scared that the ‘people’ would be happy with this and see it as a workable compromise…
Sorry, just can’t agree.
When the chief proponent of Remain, who also happened to be Prime Minister, outlined what Leave meant, there was no doubt.
Outside the single market. Outside the Customs Union. That’s what people bought. It was Theresa May that fucked up the sale, and given that happened after the vote, it can hardly be used as justification for saying that people were lied to before the vote.
People are lied to in every election. People put their X’s in the box without full knowledge of what happens next in every election. Given all that, what precisely makes this any different?
The problem is May. I’m not a lone voice in the dark on this. If the problem is May, the answer lies in getting her the fuck out of office, not pretending that everyone voted did so because they were stupid enough to be taken in by the claims of either campaign.
So in that case, we cannot leave the EU, as we can’t accept either deal (hard Brexit, or the May deal) - so best call the whole thing off.
But if the house won’t let May’s deal through (which is just working within the EU principles and framework), and won’t accept hard brexit, then there is no choice but to put it to the people in a 3 way vote:
As I understand it, we’re out on March 30th 2019. That’s what happens at the end of Article 50. That is hard Brexit by default. None of the three options you list will gain enough Parliamentary support.
This is why I predicted hard Brexit after Chequers was mooted.
Of course people are lied to in every election, what precisely makes this different is that in a parliamentary election they can be held accountable for the lies and voted out. The EU referendum is the precise opposite, a campaign of whoppers, 350 mill for the NHS, the easiest trade deal in history, they need us more than we need them, cake and eat it, etc etc. With no chance of the electorate saying in four years time, “hang about, we were fed a load of Hans Christian Anderson bullshit, you’re fired”. That’s why an irreversible momentous decision like this, which will impact on the lives of all of us, should at least be made from an informed position, after the lies have been exposed for what they were. You seem to be extremely relaxed, almost to the point of approval, about the electorate being fed lies and fantasies and being kept in a state of ignorance.
The reason I’m relaxed is because I know the British public voted to Leave. It’s the complete opposite of a general election, especially lately. In the last three general elections, I know more people didn’t want a Conservative government than those who did, yet under the FPTP system, a party without the majority of the popular vote took overall power, like every government before it since 1935.
The same cannot be said of the EU referendum. A clear majority of 1.3 million people in a binary poll. While campaigns on both sides made promises and told barefaced lies, another difference was there was only one question to ponder.
Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
No manifesto. No new incoming government. Purely about our membership of the European Union.
Theresa May told the British public she would deliver this post referendum, and on that, she has utterly failed. Instead of using the two years to prepare for a no deal Brexit, she has frittered them away getting bounced between Barnier and her backbenchers.
You speak as if people never had a view on this subject, as if they’d never considered the question before Boris and his campaign that had absolutely fuck all political power started being lax with language and making big promises.
Your position implicitly asserts that those that voted Remain were immune to the numerous lies told by the other side, which coincided greatly with a government in power, including the top two offices of state. Your position is essentially that people trusted the words of Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage, one not even an MP, over the then chancellor and prime minister of this country.
It is well worth remembering that before the European Union went on the social chapter charm offensive, Labour was broadly against the EU, especially those on the left. They decried it as a businessman and bankers club. They were not wrong then, especially not wrong now.
The moment it was able to, business abused concepts like freedom of movement to import cheap labour and erode the rights and pay of domestic workers.
Perhaps you can ignore the myriad faults of this anti-democratic union. I can’t. It is pro-corporation, pro-banking, knowingly anti-democratic, either being exploited by lobbying business interests or set up to facilitate them from the start.
When one of its brother nations fell on hard times, it did not lend a hand, even though it could. It stamped it into the fucking dirt. It’s now talking quite loudly about an EU Army, presumably beholden to the same interests that destroyed Greece, and the Parliaments of the duopoly that control it are filling up with far right politicians.
Personally, I don’t think you can support this organisation and call yourself a democrat.
That’s why I think it will come to a people’s vote, as the electorate didn’t stipulate hard or soft Brexit, so they will have to be given the choice. I think today we’re closer to a second vote than ever before.
I’m wondering - what was the point of any politicians working on anything over the last 2 years? The only option has been a hard Brexit, via the date, as no hard Brexit, or soft Brexit was ever going to get through parliament…so I’m wondering, what are people so up in arms about with Theresa? It makes no difference whether or was handled well or badly, the result will always have been the same.
There’s no such thing as a soft Brexit.
The question on the poll was posted above. It is unambiguous.
Leaving the European Union means leaving its institutions, something David Cameron and George Osborne repeatedly claimed with a great deal of media coverage spreading their message with regularity.
The real people’s vote took place on the 23rd June 2016. Real people took part in it.
The “People’s Vote” is a foreign funded loser’s vote. Nothing more.