:brexit: Brexit - The Ramifications

:brexit: Brexit - The Ramifications
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#6417

I think a referendum to leave the European Union isn’t implemented until we leave the European Union


#6418


I’M OUT.


#6419

Agreed, but it is in the process of being implemented isn’t it? Thus, the vote hasn’t been ignored.


#6420

It will be if the People’s Vote, dubbed the Loser’s Vote by many cynics, is ever taken up.


#6421

Now that just doesn’t make sense. You can’t retrospectively ignore something after you’ve already noticed it and acted in response to it. Hmm…


#6422

Still not implementation though, is it?

It’s the equivalent of someone winning a general election and waiting two years to get into power, while people are trying to overturn the result.

As I’ve said earlier, if you want to campaign for re-entry, be my guest, democrat. If you want to subvert the will of a 33m+ poll, I’m really not bothered about how tightly the anti-democratic cap might fit.


#6423

I agreed with you, it’s not at the ‘implemented’ stage, it’s at the ‘implementing’ stage. A currently ongoing process that has not yet been completed… agreed? Thus, the vote we had has not been ignored.

I stated before that I don’t think a new vote would solve any problem. A 52:48 reversal would be a waste of time. The current state of division is mostly representative of the economic divisions in our country.
But… a new vote would not be undemocratic, simply pointless at the moment.


#6424

Also, the name-calling is a bit rubbish.


#6425

No name calling going on. It is just a statement of fact, which I fully qualified with the different camps of democrats vs anti-democrats. It’s not even my terminology. The anti-democrats vs democrats thing is from Paul Embery of the FBU. Google “Loser’s vote” and you’ll quickly discern it is not my invention.


#6426

Fine, maybe I’m being a bit sensitive. Wouldn’t be the first time. Now, about the anti-democratic bit… don’t really feel you’ve addressed my point about ongoing implementation.


#6427

What you’re referring to is preparation, not implementation. Incredibly poor preparation as it goes. A cynic might argue Mrs May doesn’t want Brexit at all.


#6428

So, a part of the process of leaving the EU? Responding to the will of the people… after a democratic vote?


#6429

To piss off some people


#6430

Have the EU addressed any of the structural issues, waste or political agenda issues that many in the UK were concerned bout and Cameron tried to get changed before the referendum?
Are other Nations pushing for changes to the club?
The answer is no.
Equally the EU has found the one thing, a possible return to Sectarian violence that could impact the entire UK and is being intransigent.
Yes arguments about votes are one thing, but fact is nothing has actually changed Europe is a good thing trade and culturally. Political integration is not.
Opinions outside active political types are hardening, in both points of view.
EU needs to change they are Turkeys and won’t vote for Xmas, Britain would become even more divided.
It is NOT the 350 mil lies at fault here, it was Junker and co and their intransigence that caused this


#6431

#6432

Great post, @Dubai_Phil. It’s also worth remembering that EU inflexibility is nothing new. They gave Cameron very little to work with, and it could be successfully argued that every single instance of it swerving the people, such as the Lisbon Treaty, has hardened the resolve of those wanting out and added to their numbers.

I also think the EU is playing a very dangerous game, with its leaders perhaps not considering the wider implications for the Union. These negotiations are practically being conducted in public. Everyone can see how the UK is acting and how the EU is acting. While our negotiators could almost certainly be termed incompetent to a degree, the EU’s look downright vindictive.

It is that bad that I think we might have already seen the EU at peak size. Any head of a nation looking to join the Union is probably looking at Britain’s treatment and thinking “fuck that for a game of soldiers”. There are already nations in the EU that have never had both feet in the project too. I’d be entirely unsurprised if more nations started agitating for an exit.

To return to the theme of your post, the EU will only have itself to blame.


#6433

I don’t really want to agree with @pap, but in regards to implementation, we’re not implementing at the moment. We’re still at the ‘design’ stage.

Implementation comes when everything is scoped, designed and signed off.


#6434

It will depend on whether the fag packet has been emptied first in most companies I have worked with.


#6435

As for a second vote, I’m not sure I’m overly comfortable with one - to me it doesn’t really seem like public opinion has changed sufficiently for that - Brexiteers have seemed to fit their heels in even more (the attitude of Barnier et al during negotiations have not helped with that).

Still welcome the fact that the Irish border issue makes this damn near impossible to implement mind you.


#6436

This isn’t scientific, but I’ve seen a few videos now which would seem to illustrate that a good deal of the Remain camp is in the “just get on with it” camp these days. There are obviously a far greater number of former Leave voters in that camp too.

The only question you need to pose on a second vote is “would you agree with a second vote on a general election?”

And you get your answer.