So in the ephemeral sense, how would you feel about being judged thus if you were on the wrong side of a different issue… eg Death Penalty example above… (I have use that one on numerous occasions as I think it easily illustrates why this is less about the democratic ideal and more about how well the result sits with your ideology…)
Since when has UK respected majority votes?
How often has the # number of votes accurately reflected the number of seats in Parliament?
Just asking for a friend
Most didn’t tbf unless it was a package tour to the costas
Perhaps you were a “fucking idiot” not to. Maybe?
Very good point, Phil. The last government to have a majority of the popular vote formed in the 1930s.
If we’ve done 80 years of government without an actual majority, I don’t see how getting an actual majority in a referendum is a problem.
It wasn’t a problem in the 1975 poll when people voted to stay on 50/50 terms.
But the second vote would still be an exercise in democracy, yes? Why would it be worth less than on older vote?
As it happens, I agree that holding a second vote would be futile in the current circumstances. It would not solve the problems ascribed to membership of the EU. I also agree that it would allow propagandists to exploit the situation. But, to say it would be undemocratic is incorrect. Also, to say it would make the UK look ridiculous is also a weak point. We look sufficiently ridiculous already. A laughing stock indeed.
It implicitly ignores the most profound expression for democratic change in British history.
It’s telling 33m+ people that their votes didn’t matter, that their participation and engagement have been brushed aside.
It is profoundly anti-democratic.
Do you not feel that the ‘most profound expression for democratic change in British history’’ is somewhat undermined by the lies, and disinformation spread by all parties and the lack of a genuine debate/knowledge of the consequences? The fact that some will have believed ‘350mil per week extra for the NHS’ or that it would ‘keep the mullahs out’
Maybe its just me, but my definition of democracy would include an informed electorate.
I come back to the same point again, would you feel as strongly if the exact same numbers (33mil and 52 :48) had just voted for the reinstatement of the death penalty? I am going to a Paxman here and keep repeating this until I get answer…
I think an informed electorate is vital too, but an informed electorate is not one in possession of all the facts. It is one that is informed enough to sniff out the bullshit.
As I’ve said numerous times before, if your required standard of democratic change was the complete unvarnished truth, we’d probably need to re-run every election ever run.
I’m sure some were taken in by the lies on both sides, but in a poll so large, these people are going to cancel each other out and still remain little more than a rounding error.
Ok chaps who are of a Brexit persuasion, please read this with an open mind.
Please don’t respond with the usual knee jerk “I’m right and you are wrong, fingers in the ears” approach the those of us on both sides use these days…
Informed electorate… Seriously?
The only thing 50% of the UK are ever informed about are Z list Celebs on Reality TV shows.
Please answer as it is fundamental to your assertion of anti-democratic feelings…
Look, I’m as keen to play in your pretend universe as I am to play in Cherts’ one.
You want me to pretend that things have gotten so bad law and order wise that we’re talking about a referendum on a sentencing issue. You then want me to pretend that the referendum was won by those seeking the state execution of criminals.
To what end?
Good. You look like a twat.
You’re doing what I asked people didn’t do in my last post aren’t you?
I may have had too much rum.
It’s not Friday. That’s no excuse
I dont want you to pretend anything, its not a game, but a simple philosophical question. Its a matter of principle - you have suggested that those who cannot reconcile the outcome and accept it as a democratic choice are anti-democratic. The purpose of my (in your words ‘pretend universe’ question, in mine I would suggest a reasonable alternative example since it was muted back in the 80s) is to establish whether it would still be considered anti-democrats not to be accepting of such a vote… in your opinion.
You see, I am looking to understand whether the anti-democracy accusation is universal as opposed to just some questions… in your opinion
No. I’m a complete cock. Get it right fella
Oh, btw that’s Winston. I am hugely better looking than that, as you know.
I may have to kill you if you say otherwise- I have access to a large white articulated lorry btw