:brexit: Brexit - The Ramifications

Leave ended up getting the benefit from Project Fear. Unintended, like, but it’s certainly not the first time that someone achieved the exact opposite effect to the one that was intended, not even the first time in the context of this debate. Blair and Mandelson arguably kicked the final phase of our relationship with the EU off with their partisan plan to “send search parties out for immigrants”. The intent? To secure Labour voters for generations. Oops.

Besides, the notion that Cameron was secretly trying to get a Leave outcome doesn’t track with me. Returning briefly to the Project Fear, that’s actually a wee bit of a misnomer. Project Fear III might be a more apt title. The same tactics were applied in the AV referendum and the Scottish independence referendum. Why would Cameron adopt what he thought was a winning strategy to achieve a loss?

Besides, if Cameron really did want to leave, he could have just pushed the position himself, knowing he’d be able to count on the bulk of Conservative voters, four million Labour voters and pre-purdah help from the government, media and civil service.

Next, what was Cameron getting out of it? Let’s not forget that the result killed his political career at a very young age. He stood on the steps of Downing Street and declared that he was not the man to take the country out of the EU. That doesn’t sound like someone wanting to leave.

David Cameron is a victim of his own success, and also, his own hubris. He believed he had the ability to confirm our permanent membership of the European Union, while at the same time definitively ending a squabble within his own party that sparked the moment we joined and exploded in Maastricht.

You’re completely correct to refer to the austerity measures of the preceding six years. Had people been doing better, I am not sure that they would have voted out. Folk vote for the status quo if they feel they’re doing alright, largely because they want to keep on doing alright. People vote for something different when they feel that the present situation is unsustainable, and the risk of change is less scary than the continuance of the status quo.

Cameron tied his own hands in this regard, and also fed the far right plenty of juicy sights and sounds to exploit and amplify. They typically never mentioned that things were underfunded and being driven into the ground for eventual corporate takeover. In fact, their argument, that it’s the foreigners init, is predicated on the notion that everything is funded perfectly, and it’s only these aliens that are depriving Brits of their vital services.

It’s bollocks, of course.

People often say that they’d suspect a cock up before a conspiracy. Our erstwhile PM conspired as hard as he could to get a Remain result. I think he cocked it up.

3 Likes

Good arguments. Maybe he was just really useless, but didn’t he come from a PR background? Even more useless, if so.
I’m still in doubt, so let’s wait and see how him and his family do out of it.

1 Like

I’ve no doubt that Cameron will end up benefiting from whatever political context we end up with. These people do. The secondment culture between big business and government means that he’ll have myriad opportunities to get plum corporate appointments.

Blair got enough jobs, like, even ridiculous ones like envoy for Middle East peace.

This looks to be another :wink:

It’s not about Cameron or a Harry Enfield video, or Blair, It’s real life. If you have kids then think of their future.

Not what I was doing, @SaintBristol.

@Saint-or-sinner and I were simply discussing the prospect of Cameron having thrown the referendum.

Why do assume I’m not thinking about the future?

Do you know what…

It’s refreshing that the discussions over the last few days have been worth reading and thought provoking.

Quite a nice sea-change tbh.

Because of the way you voted, possibly?

So I was thinking about changing the past when casting a vote? Wouldn’t a DeLorean be easier?

I think you’re being slightly facetious about the way past, present and future is defined.

Personally, it seems to me that Brexit voters are looking very short term (especially the oldies that just want them pesky foreigners away from them before they die).

For me, there is no doubt that my children are likely to prosper more in a country that is in economic union with the EU. However, personally - and I would expect the same with you considering our industry and employment status - I will probably be better off in the short term by leaving the EU, as this will create a shed load of work for people in our Industry.

I think the concepts of past, present and future are readily understood.

It’s the notion that because people didn’t vote the same way as yourself that they must not have been thinking about the future, allied to the implicit notion that Remain voters were.

I don’t think you were, or certainly not hard enough, and certainly not about some of the potential pitfalls associated with staying in.

When Germany and France lurch further to the right, will our descendants be better off? When the neo-liberal dictats, such as the Fourth Railway Package, are implemented all over Europe, will our descendants thank us? When your kids can’t get work because they’re competing for entry level positions with graduates from overseas, will they thank you?

Is it just me or is this just a sensationalist headline with a bit of a non-story behind it? I wonder how many people actually read the article or just get upset over the headline?

There wont be any graduate jobs because we are going to regress to a medieval economy and we will all be sat around wondering how the fuck you cook a turnip

2 Likes

Did the paperboy deliver a copy of The Guardian by mistake, perchance? :smiley:

EU will be begging us to help after this new Pig Flu wipes out the continent’s food supply :roll_eyes:
Yeah I read the Guardian today as well

1 Like

Absolutely. The referendum was Cameron’s vanity project to attract back UKIP voters he’d lost and he thought that silencing them for a generation would be the ideal way. He went into he 2015 GE thinking he’d have to continue the love in with the LD’s as he didn’t have a majority, without banking in the LD’s kicking themselves so hard up the arse over tuition fees, they were unable to walk to the booth to vote they way he thought. Then he royally messed up the Remain campaign and ended up with a serious problem and the spineless cunt that he is, thought he’d bale out with the prospect of actually having to do some work.

IMHO, for all their shallow narcissism, Johnson, Farage and Gove are reasonably good orators and were well equipped for selling a dream to a disenfranchised electorate, who were looking to give the establishment a kicking, which they probably knew to be bullshit. Cameron was left floundering. It’s much easier to sell a dream to someone who thinks their life is shit than it is to convince them their shit life is the best choice they can make. Leave were always going to have the upperhand.

2 Likes

This is a great example of why I wanted out of this cabal

Worst still, fuck all will be done about it

Still, well done Juncker. This must have taken some doing for a man that cannot walk a straight line.

So, my question is, how on earth did this all happen before the EU became a thing? These people seem to forget that, pre-EU, we didn’t need Visas, we had an E111 card for health insurance etc. etc. etc.

So why can’t these things happen again?

Because everything will end. Everything. The fucking bastards are even going to take away the dawn because the sun rises in the east and has to cross Europe before getting to us.

5 Likes