It does indeed - I read it earlier. Later in that same article it makes clear that the rate shown is the highest marginal rate, and that this is what they always use in their data. The table in the article shows the UK as having a 45% rate of income tax, which is certainly true, but it’s the highest marginal rate and not an average. Even those who pay the highest marginal rate will only pay it on income above the threshold at which said rate is triggered (this is why it’s a marginal rate).
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The point is that the Swedes are constrained on that balance, just as we are.
You’d need to go back to the 1970s to have anything like that as highest rate here.
FWIW, I don’t think we’ve got a scooby about the true tax burden here either. My guess would be that once everything is factored in, the average earner is paying about 50% tax.
Just watched Boris Johnson’s opening speech as PM.
The speech did several things to clarify the essential question of this thread.
I think he was trying to stave off a no-confidence vote by saying that he was convinced he could get a deal done. I did not miss his priming of the European Union as the sole reason that a deal won’t happen. It’s untrue, of course. Both sides have now drawn some pretty clear red lines and a no deal is going to be just as much of a consequence of our red lines versus theirs.
Personally, I now think no deal is inevitable and we’ll be out on WTO terms on November 1st. We’ve seen utter inflexibility on the backstop from the European Union. It’s not that it can’t remove it. It just won’t. It has not taken the news of our impending departure very well, has representatives speaking almost daily about wanting us to stay in.
We’re long past the point where not losing face prevails over common-sense.
Ben Wallace will now be looking after your Defence.
Second choice after Jeremy Cunt.
EDIT Mwah, wrong thread.
[quote=“pap, post:1584, topic:4831, full:true”].
We’re long past the point where not losing face prevails over common-sense.
[/quote]
Good post Pap.
This bit is what has driven the whole Brexit argument - Government, media and social media. The point was passed probably the day after the referendum result. Explains a lot of the discourse on here too.
Without wanting to get too partisan about it, and I take no pleasure from it, but Brexit will hurt the European Union much more than it does the UK.
I’m prepared to justify that with a fucking big post, but for now, I’ll sympathise a little bit. No exit scenario is good for the EU. It acts like a prick? We leave with no deal and it looks like a prick. It plays nice? Makes exit look too easy.
I think that regardless of your status on this issue, the backstop was the point where the EU lost the plot. It was patently fucking ridiculous, especially when heard by a population that had seen that much more difficult situations were resolved in that part of the world twenty one years ago.
See, I haven’t read the rest of this thread but you have constantly mooted this point.
EU policy is decided by the EU diktat, it is then rubber stamped by the MEPs.
I don’t know the answer to this one but how many times has a British person been a member of the Diktat? I would hazard a guess at zero. So, even if we are “in” how can we change the direction of what the EU is?
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Errmm, by being “in” and driving things maybe?
Please don’t do a fucking big post. It’s too hot this evening…
Ta?
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But how can we drive things when the people doing the driving won’t let us in the cab let alone the driving seat 
Edit : and even if we did manage to get a back seat in the cab, the one that was there would be chosen because he believed in the EU project…so would agree with his new besties…
Take to the streets / civil disobedience / outright rioting / civil war - I dunno tbh, am comfy warrioring from my armchair for the moment tbh.
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When you boil it down, everyone with policy making power in the European Union is appointed, not elected.
You have the European Commission, in which all posts are appointed, and judging by our political experience, it means the likes of Neil Kinnock and Peter Mandelson get big earners, a network of international contacts and a profound interest in the European Union for some reason. I mean honestly, can you imagine Kinnock in that hugely important role after getting drubbed by the Tories twice in a row?
I’d lay money on it that at least once, he exclaimed “this is so EASY!” in that big Welsh accent of his.
We move on.
The next branch of the policy making arm of the EU is the Council of Ministers, comprised of every foreign minister from every country in the Union. Again, they’re all appointed. No-one in the EU is voting for a foreign minister. It’s a leader’s whim thing, or in May’s case, a leader’s necessity.
The European Commission and the Council of Ministers are all appointed. They are the only bodies that together, can propose pan-European legislation.
The European Parliament can approve, reject or amend that legislation, but it rarely does.
Re marginal rates in the UK
Between £100k and £120k they reduce your personal allowance to nil giving a marginal rate of 60% (62% if you you include NI)
There is and effective rate of 64% where child benefit is withdrawn around £50k ish
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This is why I favour flat rate for everything.
It may be regressive. It may be fucking high.
But at least people will actually know what they’re paying, and demand better of their government if they’re not performing.
VAT, Fuel Tax and the unholy combination of the two are virtually hidden.
Another reason I think we’re going no deal?
Dominic Cummings, who ran the Vote Leave campaign and credited for the infamous “take back control” mantra was appointed as a Special Adviser today.
Is this @pap ‘s project fear?
Can’t see why you have such a problem with the EU - actually we’re at loggerheads on this subject so it’s not worth carrying on, as hopefully we’d both agree.
For everyone else, this short explainer might help…or not, depending on your viewpoint.
My beef with the EU cab be explained very succinctly. Power should be as local and accountable as possible.
The EU has got itself into a state (pun totally intended) where it is neither.
If you’re in the club (any club) you play by the rules otherwise you have two options, one sensible and the other petulant:
- Work from within to make things more local and accountable
Or
- Throw your toys out of the pram, whip up rampant nationalistic jingoism and lie to try and get the UK to leave the EU
I think you’ll agree that I firmly believe in 1)
No need to take this any further.
Didn’t we try option 1 and were given the finger
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