Been watching Novara Media. They’re going through a mini golden age at the moment with Keir Starmer’s antics providing most of their material.
Ash Sarkar He looks tetchy, and comes across as a deputy headmaster that has just lost control of the school assembly.
I’d recommend Novara to right wingers, just as I’d recommend Trigonometry or The Spectator’s YouTube channels to left wingers. There are good discussions in all, and the discussion format (as opposed to one-man YouTube rant) is probably better fayre than you’ll find on most news channels.
Will say it again, we need to change the language and get this notion of class out of our politics. The left should be about representing everyone in a socially just way, not just be there for ‘poor’ folks. What the Tories have done is take that ground by convincing these ‘aspiration’ voters that they are the party that supports their ideals, and has convinced many that this aspiration is for all, and why should you pay for those that are ‘too lazy’ to grasp it…
The Left needs to correct this, be the party that really links this aspiration back to the social responsibility in REAL terms, not just in platitudes. It needs to inspire folks to feel proud of such social justice- that is what would really make Britain Great - a big fuck you to any cunt harbouring prejudices, or is too selfish to pay for quality services for everyone, and that we should be ashamed that there is any such a thing a food banks, or ‘refugee’ centres.
It only comes with genuine sincerity and passion, and a demonstration that this is not about old school socialism, but about an evolved social equality that is only possible with a mature and compassionate society… and something in which we could be truly proud of waving the flag
A fair point… but you have to start with principles, and the purpose was really to consider how do Labour reconcile its traditions with the reality that it does need evolution if it is to be considered relevant to many who seem to feel the Tories are more representative of their expectations…
Re, Unicorn… better man than me once said, (to paraphrase):
“The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark.”
I think my point is that you need policy. We can get vague statements of intent from the Leader’s office and they’re about as electorally significant.
Under Corbyn, Labour had retail policy, stuff you could sell to either side. Under Starmer, they’ve got nothing that anyone wants. Who’d vote for Tory-light when the real thing is out there and available?
Yes you need policy that delivers on your principles, but my point is that the party must evolve these to reflect 2021, not 1921… that is Labour’s challenge as the last time they tried this they ended up with a blaironeoliberalism… an open wound that wont heal
Its like all things that are tarnished by association… sadly you forget and discard what was actually good, as its slung out with the shite. So you lose any incremental progress, and any attempt to try again is fraught with negative association. Its perhaps why some in the party want a purist return to traditional roots. I can understand that, but it wont win elections because too many no longer see that as relevant - despite the poverty traps and food banks.
The opposition are also primed to jump on any deviation (really evolution) of principles and accuse of alienating traditions and stealing ideals… (classic distraction spin)
They need to begin by asking some serious questions about what is in all our best interests in this time, and therefore what a party needs to offer to reflect this, but with the foundations well and truly rooted in social equality and equal opportunity
I know that sounds all light weight and without substance - but the substance comes with policy as you say. All I am advocating is they need to to embrace change, not follow a Tory-light vision, but create a new one.
Not sure how to create an effective policy around this, but I would want a commitment that food banks become unnecessary within 12 months of office. There needs to be a revamp of the benefits system, so its simple and designed to help, not obstruct. I know this is controversial, but the only way you counter claims by tory cunts and sadly those you are looking to attract back into the fold that, too many folks would not spend the money on food, but on booze and fags, is to think about how such necessary benefits are ‘paid’ etc…
For me the fact we have people in poverty, is our biggest shame and we need not just money but the attitude that this is unacceptable, and its our duty to help put this right…
I know a cop out as not a policy per sae, but lets start by not calling these things ‘benefits’ as that implies a ‘treat’ of some kind, when we are talking about ensuring everyone has a basic right to the essentials for life that will enable those folks to focus on opportunities, not on how to make a tin of beans stretch to feed 3 kids…
Basically, people need the following things to prosper.
Secure housing
Secure income
Opportunities to improve
You can get about ten policies out of that alone, and scarily, the Conservatives are addressing it.
I don’t agree with their methods. I’d sooner see the return of social housing than a 5% deposit scheme that looks set to create a property bubble.
They are investing in the North, and no doubt, too much of that money will end up in the pockets of their mates, but the investment will be welcomed regardless.
The new commitment to ensure that any adult can get the equivalent of A-levels for free is not as good as paying for higher education, but it’s better than fuck all.
The point is, all of these things are concrete. They’re happening.
Rather weirdly, you’re taking the same position as Keir - making nice abstract noises. The problem that Keir and you share is that eventually, some little fucker like me eventually pops up and and asks “yeah, but what would you actually do?”.
A bit disingenuous, given its not my job to come up with Labour party policy. I am not a politician or policy maker, so not sure you should be comparing posters on a message board to Starmer…
OK so examples… off topic head
Housing: condition of planning approvals for new stock will be subject to 25% becoming ‘council’ stock - paid for at cost+ appropriate margin - not just 'affordable housing - Paid for by government and through a development tax of 15% of net profits of the new build scheme
Private rentals - New vetting and evaluation scheme - all property that is rented out subject to strict rental maximums based on quality and facilities, location etc and max occupation numbers. DSS tenants can not be refused and rents paid direct from DSS to landlord, but also held back if repairs needed etc - Contract revisions to enable better rates for longer term rentals and properties subject to quotas on long, mid and short term rental agreements. Gradual transition of realistic rental contributions subject to income.
etc, etc… There are effective ways to still make private rentals attractive from a commercial perspective but controlling rip offs and ensuring fair access to to all.
It’s not my job to set government policy either, but that doesn’t stop me from suggesting it.
That said, it is my job to solve problems and you don’t solve anything through vague statements of intent. You solve things with concrete solutions. It requires putting your neck on the line. It requires leadership.
True, but its not my problem to solve - and in this case its a discussion on what they might need to do. It might not be enough for you but it is ‘only’ a wee message board and the discussion was about ‘what now for Labour’ not, let’s build out their next manifesto.
First they need a broad strategy that is going break free from both the association of old school socialism AND yet make social responsibility appealing to those who currently don’t give a shit about it. That is not a ‘vague’ statement, its a fact. They need to start with a clear vision before they start building out detailed policies to deliver on that promise.
At present they have no clear strategy or vision and no idea about how to gain back those who no longer feel they are relevant to their lives.
Trouble is they can ask as many questions as they want, hopefully to their traditional supporters. Problem is they seldom listen to the replies, only hearing what they want to hear.
I would argue, it needs to be broader than that - because just listening to traditional supporters and bringing them back, will not be enough to gain any election victory
True but I meant as a start. They really need to listen to normal people from all walks of life and political persuasions but they also need to learn to listen
I refuse to be classed as normal!! At the risk of offending the snowflakes I mean not just the degree holders ( and I have 2 degrees ) but also those from the local comprehensive. Not just the rich but those that use food banks. So not just the usual suspects but people from all walks of life, but again I stress they must LISTEN
but what are normal people? Are we all not ‘normal’