No fucker wants to admit it but Bazza in the 3rd person is nearly always bang on the fucking money, its financial apratheid , applications are obviously from areas with better schools to attain the grades requiredto attend, also these families have the financial clout to send them.
And tot hink the whoppers on here want me to send my children to some of the worst state school in the Country to hold my beliefs, dear oh dear.
Iāll add my uncle went to Cambridge and my wife could have gone but opted for Sheffield, it doesnāt all have to be Oxbridge but the tie, handshake and rugby network will no doubt hellp you advanceyour career in grubby London.
I disagreeā¦its just increased the number of levels - employers still rate 'traditional universtities/rebricks over those with newly granted status, offering in many cases course that give false hopesā¦ degrees that are unnecessary - where the entry routes to certain careers have always been more about getting in at the bottom. NOw it may beinteresting to do a degree on the music business or inTheatre managemnet, but they rarely offer routes into those career pathsā¦ That to me does these kids a diservice, especially given the debt burden that results.
Knowing the Oxbridge system first hand (via being married to a former Oxford college adminsions secretary) there is a LOT of bullshit writeten and believed. There is NO let up on the academic standard irrespective of which school you went to or how much your father may have donated to a college fundā¦ the governance structure does not allow it. Specific entrance exams are no longer part of most admision systems which go by A level/IB and interview only.
Yes there is still a majority of kids that have been privatelyu educated and all thsi proves is that the quality of education they have been privalaged to get makes a difference - that difference is opportunity to have small classes and more attention for those bright enough to stand a chance.
The biggest difference seen at interview stage tends to be confidence - private schools kids tend to have more of its a focal point of their educationā¦ and that confidence lends its self well to an interview system.
I will ask the question again, what is wrong with having universities that are the best in the world say? That attract the biggest investment for research and as such generate innovation and cutting edge solutions that drive our industry? That will always mean the brightest goā¦ To me what is more important is the opportunity to go there shoudl be open to all - that means quality of education and motivation to be educated needs to be available to all.
Yes there are countless exampls of bright kids who dont get in., or sruggle dto fit inā¦ but I can give you loads of examples of kids from working class backgrounds who did and were very successful. There are arseholes everywhere, not just at Oxbridge.
Others such as Durham, St Andrews etc also have a good proprtion of privately educated kidsā¦ but again have high academic standards that are the only admission criteriaā¦
I just think we should be doing all we can to get a) better access to betetr and more consistent standards in education (driven by resources in most cases) so that any remianing access barriers to the best universities are finally driven out. Whilst folkskeep believing some of the BS, we are just perpetuating the myths and the reverse snobbery.
Unserprizingly, the head of European Consuting at the firm I work for went to University College, Oxford between 87-91. He went to a secondary modern in Cardiff and was the first in his family to go to university, is not a tory, or a pratt, just a decent honest blokeā¦ albeit Welshā¦ That is the way barriers are broken down, not by getting more working class kids to do media studies, IMHO.
"just a decent honest blokeā¦ albeit Welshā¦ " 
And handshakes on golfcourses and masonic lodges, they go far far further than a general application.
Racist 
Fuck my typing is badā¦
Not to want to rake over old ground, but all the evidence suggests that kids going to these very posh schools are tutored to shit, achieve spectacularly at A Levels, then fall behind at the undergraduate level, which involves a lot more independent enterprise, something that state school educated kids tend to do better at, perhaps out of necessity.
Academic standards are a smokescreen which gives the veneer of equality without really addressing the inherent inequalities that prevent so many kids from achieving them. They focus on outcomes alone, not how those outcomes were achieved.
The schools providing the best outcomes and the most entrants to Oxbridge usually have the most resources State schools, never in rude health financially during much of my living memory, are being cut year on year now, with class sizes on the increase, and tuition fees a reality for anyone not rocking the cash up front.
If we had a level playing field, Iād have no issue with it. The playing field is far from level. Rich kids slide straight from Eton into Oxbridge into establishment positions so easily you assume theyāre not playing on a field at all, rather in a waterpark, zooming down a flume. For poorer kids itās more like Nomansland.
You mean that dodgy village on the way to Salisbury?
Young Adult #1 has come across people from places like Eton and Rugby in her 1st term at Exeter. She said most are right bellends who have a sense of entitlement and play the big āI amā but are actually little infant boys when it comes to the serious stuff of socialising / partying.
Iām sure their mothers love them.
We see a lot of this misinformation and cliche about this supject all the time - sweeping generalisations as if all who go to Eton end up at Oxbridgeā¦ not actually factually correct but suitably misleading if looking to score a pointā¦ No one suggests that there should not be equality of opportunity. Appropriate resources to ALL schools. BUT many who go to state schools get additional tuition paid for by parents and grandparents to help with difficult subjects or to help with university accessā¦ should we criticise this as well? Its the reason many get so fucked off with cliched socialismā¦ its an easy target and one which is as misguided as it is familiarā¦ because unless we all want to embrace a true communist equality, there will always be folks who have more cash than other and will chose to spend it how they wishā¦
Pap, you talk about kids being assesed on the best outcomes, not on the conditions in which those outcomes were achievedā¦ that is also not strictly true with respect to the admissions process and policy, although that comes with its own problemsā¦
You also do the politicians trick of weaving in two seperate issues, that although related should be looked at seperately. That of education spending on state schools being cut year on yearā¦ that is obviously a hideious state of affairs and successive Governments should be ashamed on not putting education in schools as THE priorityā¦ but that is a separate issue from university admissions policy. And whilst its true that there are a disproportionate number of privately educated kids at top universities, the numbers of elite public school etonians taking up places on PPE courses is modest when looked at as a whole.
Its also how you present these āfactsā - Do more go to Oxbridge and other top universities because they are rich and privately educatedā¦ something that is nicely politically attractive for the old school left, or do we acknolwedge that more get in from these schools because they have had better teaching, better resources? Insititutions have not been giving out places to kids just because of their certain schools for a long time.
Finally, you look to suggest that many from private schools do worse at university than state school kidsā¦ no idea, but when I went to university, a univesrity that had its fair share of those from private schools - its was only the wankers from both sides who in their prejudices and snobbishness failed to integrate in to a single bunch of stutent scrotesā¦ As to academic success whilst there, this had more to do with how you dedicated yourself to study v getting pissed and laid and fuck all to do with where you got your a levels or what grades you got. More recently, academic success has increase dramatically as folks realise they better get on with it given the debt burden they may haveā¦ and this will probably account why you see some data on state school kids now doing better, they have to focus. The private school kids dont feel that debt burden and can continue to be āfreeā as we all used be with respect to study. The fear of debt being the driver here, not that the intellectual abilty of kids form one side of the system or the other. You like assuming causational effects rather a lot I noticeā¦
Private education is no more than buying success and should be banned in any democracy that claims to believe in merit(charitable status? Fuck off). There really is no justifiable defence of a system set up to divide, purely based on parents wealth.
The argument about funding of state schools is another convenient lie(only a neo con can justify using this). Get involved in forcing change, because going the other way only helps destroy the state system(give yourselves a pat on the back, up holders of the class system).
Five schools send more pupils to Oxford and Cambridge every year than two thousand other schools. To say itās not a fixed system is delusional.
Look how good just one of them does.
Over the past thirty years some 60-100 boys have made successful applications to Oxbridge each year.
Is the problem with the UK the higher educational system or is it more than that? I have one sprig in Brighton Uni, one in Glasgow and the third will probably go to Brighton next year. They are all very happy with their lot and donāt fret about not going to Oxbridge. For me the main problem with this country is the Little Englander attitude that still prevails despite decades of us being a second rate country. The output of Eton, Oxford, Cambridge etc is enough to keep this arrogant and delusional attitude going. It has something to do with an island mentality. Between them, the Channel, the Atlantic Ocean and the North Sea have ensured that, to use a Barryism, inbred tribalism continues to dictate the mindset of many. Whatever you think of Brexit, we have taken a massive backward step that has emboldened the Little Englanders to come out of the woodwork and will set this country back years. There are hopeful signs that the young generation are not happy and perhaps they will manage to turn things around. But they face an uphill struggle as long as there are people who misunderstand what the Great in Great Britain actually means.
It means ābigger in sizeā than the other bit of Britain at the time, Brittany in France.
This argument has been done to deathā¦ and there will never be agreement because there are too many assumptions and prejudices about it, and a willingness to make generalisations from small samples often with obvious agendas. So I will make one more statemnet and then bow outā¦
Rich? Depends on how this is defined: Many parents chose to spend all their spare cash on their kidās educations as opposed to socializing and holidays and other luxuriesā¦ that is a FACT, we chose to.
Yes, we are much better off/lucky to have that āspareā cash each month than many who do not have a choice - that is not my fault. I had no siver spoon either, but I was the first from my working class family to go to universityā¦ I have a decent job that pays well, but most in my income bracket would chose to save, or have holsā¦ its not a bracket where we can 'have it all. I am sure Red Pap will say ''how dare I have this money and then chose to spendit on my choicesā¦ ā but you know what, fuck off because I do NOT need to apologise for my choices.
At university , I met many from all social backgrounds both privately and publically educated. There were utter twats from all walks of life and imho, what set decent folks apart was how they had been brought up, not the school they went to or the size of mummys purse. Making generalizations about kids from private schools all being stuck up mummys boys and girls with no idea about life is no less prejudicial, judgemental and ignorant as suggesting all kids at secondary moderns are schemy chavs whose parents don t give a fuckā¦ its plain WRONG
Yes there are 5-6 āFamousā Public schools, like Eton, Harrow etc that have strong histroical links with certain Oxford and Cambridge colleges. Yes they are tutored to get in and there is still some collegiate level advantage to their entryā¦ that is changing but its an institutional change that takes time. Class system? Whilst working class people keep voting Tory because the Sun tells them to, the class system is mainatined. Its not maintained because of private schools. If w ekeep voting for old etonians, old etonians will always be the āpolitical eliteā ā¦ And I have never and will never vote for for those fuckers.
Tutition fees are now putting off many that would otherwise have gone to universtity for the experience, as opposed for pure academic pursuitā¦ and its why many from āpoorerā backgrounds are doing better now as the kids that make this choice are determined to max out the benefits. This is agood thing as ultimately its about what university shoudl be aboutā¦ unlike in my day where until finals it was mostly about the more socially engaging aspectsā¦
It may well be classified as a āneo-conā value to defend freedom of choice, and if folks want to stick a useless label on me becaus eof choices I make, well let them. I am comfortable with my choices for my child - and anyone who is going to make sweeping judgemnets over how she will perform at university (if she choses to go ) or how she views folks form all backgrounds can fuck off now. Its NO different from someone suggesting that your kids who wnet to state schools all swear form the age of 6, fight each other, steal, dont give a fuck about authorityā¦ blah blah and any other cliches I could suggest about āpoorerā kids - ITS ALL SHIT. there are complete and utter cunts from all backgrounds and social classes. end of. But when it comes to education, I made choices because of class sizes, and resources and facilties, not least after school clubs etc.
Some say, āget involvedā or you are perpetuating the issueā¦Sorry, but that is again bullshit - the blame for lack of investment in state schools lies with those that never vote for anything betterā¦ and there are plenty of secret tories who prefer to have a lower tax burden than invest in our infrastructure and education to a realistic and correct level.
You consider a sample of over 2000 schools a small sample? Wow.
I wonāt bother with the rest. Itās Sunday and i really canāt be arsed(as you say, we have been here before).
It is a great example of why we are in such a mess though.
That brings back memories. The best part of forty years ago when the kids were small we used to go to a pub there called āThe Cuckoo Innā. It had a garden that they loved, full of animals, peacocks, pigs and chickens wandering in an out of the public bar etc. Served a decent pint of ale too as i recall. Anyone else ever go there?
Yes weāve been there a few times but itās not so rustic as it used to beā¦no wildlife in the bar. Still a good pint though.
Picture from the webā¦
Having now taught a full half term in the private sectorā¦itās interesting observing how the other 7% live. Most of the kids are lovely (a few tools but mo more. as a proportion, than I taught in the state sector). Iāve yet to teach anyone with the magnesium bright intelligence of some of those I came across in the state sector (admittedly the school I am currently at is not academically selective).
I would say that if your child is average/low ability academically then your 35 grand a year might be well spent in the private sector with the smaller class sizes and lack of poor behaviour. Otherwise, the only obvious benefit is the amazing food on offer.
