Originally posted by @TheCholulaKid
*alternatively, watching Chertsey and Fatso duke it out will suffice.
Phew…it took two weeks but we got there in the end.
Yeah, of course you can effect change as a governor or member of a PTA. That’s why people do it. Much of what people end up doing is raising money to address the shortcomings of educational funding, or to make a case for additional funding in a certain area. The school is accountable to the governors, so any serious problems, such as an underperforming head, or a lack of appropriate material, can be addressed.
You may argue that by getting involved in fundraising activities, parents of state school children are doing the same thing as their fee-paying counterparts. I see a huge difference. We’re contributing to a school. You are funding a business.
I’ll leave you with a couple of maybes. Maybe you wouldn’t need to work 60 hours a week if your kid didn’t go to private school. Maybe, with the costs saved, you could play an active role in the development of a cherished local resource. Maybe, if more people had that attitude, schools wouldn’t be perceived as “crap”.
Not quite sure what utopian fairytale land you live in pap… yes these bodies make honorable contributions through their activities, but knowing the levels of funds these groups raise, it is not addressing the problem. The published accounts of the school my daughter attends confirm that it’s is not a ‘business’ - they reinvest in facilities, in teaching staff budget etc… additional funds are raised through parents activies as you mention… not all these schools are floating in legacy cash… but why bother finding out the reality when a cliche will do?
I KNOW not all state schools are crap, I attended both army BFES schools as well as other state schools - but when researching local schools here the findings were not pretty - if you care to re-read you will note this… it was not on a whim or ‘perception’. You have your opinion, fair enough, but I take it you have neither experienced working within or attending an independent school? Without resulting to insult, I suggest your opinion is therefore, rather biassed as well as ignorant.
I have never attended independent schools, or worked in them. I’ve given talks at some very decent state schools, and make it my life’s mission at such events to snare all the little geeks and tell them what a lark computer programming is. I am ignorant of independent schools in that respect, yes.
That said, I abhor what they represent and dislike the way that certain independent schools dominate the elite universities, establishing moneyed cliques which often deter people from humbler backgrounds from going in the first place. The situation is compounded by the fact that Oxbridge won’t allow its students to do part-time work during term time, meaning that poorer students often just bin it off because they can’t make ends meet. Juvy #1’s bessie is at Cambridge, and has to work every fucking hour god sends during holidays just to make it, and can only do it then because she’s the youngest of her family and they’re relatively well off.
How many people in Government right now have their jobs because of the school they went to? Can we honestly say that they’re the best people for the job on that basis? That’s independent schooling in the extreme.
I have to admit, my interest lies in free education rather than comprehensive education. The ideal would be a comprehensive system which can accommodate, and meet the demands of all the students it gets, whether that is maximising the use of the brightest or recognising the developmental needs and/or recognising underlying problems of those that are falling behind.
I’ve actually got zero problem with selection, and think that our squeamishness about it is holding us back as a country. Do it early and discreetly, and it shouldn’t be a problem. Teachers have no problem identifying kids that can’t make the grade, directing them to specialist institutions in accordance with their needs. Why aren’t we doing the same with bright kids?
Thing is Pap, that ‘elitist mafia’ that you abhor is pretty much the realm of a few institutions that cost 35k a year and that require names at birth and all that. They do not IMHO reflect the reality, nor is it really representative of the majority. Yes there are places where snobery exists, where kids become isolated from the realities of social diversity and social challanges, but again these are not the norm.
Of course the ideal is free education from 5 years to university…but we have to be prepared to acept this is only possible if we are prepared to pay for it - through higher taxation.
In addition, if you are comfortable with selection (as am I), is this not also the same as restricting University places and only having those places given the the best (and supporting them financially)? Rather than the current system that has created a glut of useless degrees and debt?
For me its not about how many kids get to University, but about ensuring equal opportunity - yes, historically some schools have links with certain Universities, but these links are being challenged, sadly not by greater access from all UK schools, but due to the need for increased fees from foreign students to replace previous government funding.
I just feel that education in this country needs a complete overall and addressing the more uncomfortable questions that not all kids can reach the same academic heights - but should be given every opportunity to reach their own potential. It is my belief that this is less about the minority who attend the ‘average’ independent school, and more about appropriate funding and parental support.
Funny you should say that, but my Dad was chair of governors at Hythe Primary School (a school I didn’t attend) for 15 years, to give back to the community at what was a poorly performing school. Didn’t stop him considering sending me to private secondary school mind…
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Anyway pap, what is wrong with toasting crumpets and ‘horseplay’ in the showers? Thought you would approve 
It’s not even duking it out, it’s me making a point and him throwing insults. It’s pretty easy though, I argue with my toddler at home all the time and nearly always win.
Originally posted by @areloa-grandee
Thing is Pap, that ‘elitist mafia’ that you abhor is pretty much the realm of a few institutions that cost 35k a year and that require names at birth and all that. They do not IMHO reflect the reality, nor is it really representative of the majority. Yes there are places where snobery exists, where kids become isolated from the realities of social diversity and social challanges, but again these are not the norm.
It’s not the norm to spend money on something that governments and other bodies try to provide for free. I’ll not deny that those institutions are extreme, just as you can’t deny that their alumni are disproportionately influential. Eton is to independent schools as the Royals are to the class system; an ostensibly inviolable apex. I’m not trying to claim that all independent schools are as like, but Eton couldn’t exist as is without the legitimacy of the overall enterprise.
Of course the ideal is free education from 5 years to university…but we have to be prepared to acept this is only possible if we are prepared to pay for it - through higher taxation.
Or, as the traditional theory went, higher earnings, which is of course, predicated on having a job in the first place.
In addition, if you are comfortable with selection (as am I), is this not also the same as restricting University places and only having those places given the the best (and supporting them financially)? Rather than the current system that has created a glut of useless degrees and debt?
I’m not as confident as you, Cracked Rib. I’m not sure I can denigrate entire fields of study without ever having studied them. I’ve never been entirely comfortable with the idea of useless degrees, largely because their definition is so subjective. Usually, the definition has connotations of not being commercially marketable, or perceived as having a high chance of failure.
I also worry about the sort of shallow business-driven dystopia we might become if we don’t celebrate art or introspection.
For me its not about how many kids get to University, but about ensuring equal opportunity - yes, historically some schools have links with certain Universities, but these links are being challenged, sadly not by greater access from all UK schools, but due to the need for increased fees from foreign students to replace previous government funding.
The university system has been deliberately defunded to capitalise higher education. We used to have free higher education. It’s now the second most expensive in the world.
I just feel that education in this country needs a complete overall and addressing the more uncomfortable questions that not all kids can reach the same academic heights - but should be given every opportunity to reach their own potential. It is my belief that this is less about the minority who attend the ‘average’ independent school, and more about appropriate funding and parental support.
It does, but that funding is never going to materialise if bean counters are counting up numbers in independent schools, and subtracting them from the education budget.
In my view, education is too important a cornerstone of our civilisation to be fucked with by transient, ideologically driven governments. How the fuck we ever let Michael Gove become Education Secretary is beyond me.
The sad limitations of only being state school educated 
And people said Sotonians would only ever be back-slapping and sucking each other off
You argue with a toddler? Poor parenting IMO. This child will probably go off the rails in Year 11 and join a gang. The apple never falls far.
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Originally posted by @pap
I’m not as confident as you, Cracked Rib. I’m not sure I can denigrate entire fields of study without ever having studied them. I’ve never been entirely comfortable with the idea of useless degrees, largely because their definition is so subjective. Usually, the definition has connotations of not being commercially marketable, or perceived as having a high chance of failure.
I am not talking about the diverse nature of study - indeed academic pursuit has its own value irrespective of it’s commercial marketabilty, and should be encouraged and supported, including arts, obscure languages, ancient history etc. (and I say that as a science Graduate ) I was talking about former colleges of further education that previously provided solid BTEC, HNDs etc recognised practical qualifications that now offer degrees in media, music production, etc that are sold on them having a comercial application, but do nothing of the sort - just trendy ways of fleecing kids out of 27k (IMHO)
We will need to agree to disagree my raving commie looney leftie nemesis
OK, fairysnuff, maybe I should have caveated that with “a greater proportion” (of teachers are more invested…)
Originally posted by @areloa-grandee
I am not talking about the diverse nature of study - indeed academic pursuit has its own value irrespective of it’s commercial marketabilty, and should be encouraged and supported, including arts, obscure languages, ancient history etc. (and I say that as a science Graduate
That’s delicious. Even if it were true, it’s only possible because tuition is 9K a year, billed to the student. Of course, the exact same thing can be said for any other discipline. Students are getting fleeced whatever the subject is, regardless of whether it’s got universal approval.
I’m extremely excited at the news that music production and media are dead end careers. I’ve been looking an in with Beyonce for a while now. When I inform her that her old man has wasted his life, she’ll come running 
We will need to agree to disagree my raving commie looney leftie nemesis
That’s generally the way this place goes. and let’s face it, nine times out of ten you’d be cheering me on. This time, you can’t, because self interest conflicts; that’s fine. We don’t agree, but neiher shall we fall out over it.
Dude its the ‘degrees’ is what has little commercial worth - as the industry sees no value in them… not the careers themselves…just as a point of correction.
I appreciate that you are after an ‘in’ with Beyonce - that is a reasonable aspiration, but maybe not one that is attainable for a lowly state school educated loon… now, had you gon to Eton…
Zing!
Surf studies was a massive one at my uni - mainly because it meant spending 3 days a week at Fistral surfing.
Good to see this happening and being advertised (on the tube today) - be interesting to see how many places are available at each school.
A very old thread but worth resurrecting with this article.
I’ve worked with this Co on private company GP access for clients (large corporates who don’t want staff taking too much time out on GP appointments), where it works surprisingly well.
Anyway, seems all is not well with this NHS trial, but the worrying thing is the other areas they have been sniffing around to set up in. Southampton being one.
Another bit of dismantling of the NHS not being managed very well? Wonder which politicians are possibly benefiting?
The thread is admittedly about State vs Independent schools, but apart from that, carry on.