šŸŒæ ā“ Legalise it?

My 16 year old son asked me to stop smoking dope a couple of weeks ago, just after I came out of hospital with alcohol related liver, pancreas and gall bladder issues (theyā€™re all fucked, the gall bladder came out).

I am very proud of him for doing this, as most of his mates see smoking weed as a future lifestyle choice. He realises that is not his pathway, though I hoped I could cope with alcohol addiction by replacing it with weed.

The weed he and I used to smoke /bong was very home grown and tame, compared to high thc stuff.

It is strange, the people in positions to make decisions about the legality of cannabis have probably moved on from experiencing the highs and lows of it and encountering people who benefit or fail on it.

I think the question shouldnā€™t be ā€˜legalise this or that drugā€™, rather legalise all, or make all illegal. What is fun? Drugs or health?

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I certainly think Cannabis for medicinal reasons is hard to reason against. It doesnā€™t get you high, not addictive (apart from itā€™s medicinal efficacy) but its use is now recognised as being therapeutically useful for a number of conditions.
Iā€™ve never smoked so wasnā€™t tempted even though I was surrounded by itā€¦cigarettes simply made me sickā€¦Iā€™m sure ditto for Cannabis. Iā€™m not in favour of a blanket deregulationā€¦I have a niece with mental health problems due to heavy use of ā€œSkunkā€ā€¦her 3 boys are now living with relatives and sheā€™s alienated from the rest of the family.
My wife has had MS for over 30 years, during that time sheā€™s been offered very little, no I lieā€¦sheā€™s been offered nothing. She doesnā€™t get muscle spasms but apparently a lot of MS sufferers do and Cannabis illegally obtained is the only way they can relieve their symptoms. MS has a multiplicity of symptoms most of which have no recognised treatmentsā€¦itā€™s shameful one of the treatments available to them can only be accessed by breaking the law.

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There was an excellent piece on PM (Radio 4 programme) a week or so back regarding the decriminalisation of drugs in Portugal. Al drugs there, not just cannabis, are now not legal, but possession of them isnā€™t a criminal offence - unless someone is found to be in possession of more than would be required for their own needs, in which case they will be charged with dealing.

Essentially, the whole area of drug use is now treated as a health issue and not a legal/criminal one. Drug users are offered treatment and not prosecution. The results have been startling; drug use and associated crime have been massively reduced. The police, who were highly sceptical at first, now wholly embrace the policy, not least as they now have far more resources to devote to tackling real crime (including, of course, the trade in illegal drugs).

A couple of links - the thing I listened to isnā€™t available, though as it formed part of a news programme thatā€™s hardly surprising):

Meanwhile, our own government is more interested in pursuing an unwinnable ā€œwar on drugsā€, apparently based more on ludicrous notions of sin and morality than on practicality and effectiveness.

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ā€œā€¦Meanwhile, our own government is more interested in pursuing an unwinnable ā€œwar on drugsā€, apparently based more on ludicrous notions of sin and morality than on practicality and effectivenessā€¦ā€

Iā€™d say that to a degree you are right @Fowllyd, but I bet that as soon as someone can ā€œlegitimatelyā€ make millions for investors and/or the product can be taxed then thingsā€™ll change pretty damn quick.

Ok, Iā€™m a cynic

:lou_lol:

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Good point about Portugal. I think some Scandinavian countries also follow this policy.
We have no chance at the moment, as we follow the US system of making incarceration a profit business, so thereā€™s no will to look at it logically.
The war on drugs is a massively profitable business for some and they pay to keep it that way.
Isnā€™t alcohol the only drug that kills brain cells, whilst being at least on par with mental health problems and thatā€™s before you get the liver problems.
A bit of rational debate by experts, followed by suitable legislation is long overdue.

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Having seen the effect of CBD Oil on someone who was terminally ill then that must be legalised now.
On the subject of recreational drugs, the revenues they produce, the care structure around that is important. So yes properly governed States or if it is NOT a religious issue, then legalise it.
UK? Couldnā€™t put together a Lego set at the moment so perhaps they shouldnā€™t be trusted.
But they will once Rees Mogg opens a fund to profit from it

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I think you may have missed the point here. What you describe isnā€™t what happens in Portugal, nor is it anything that Iā€™d propose. All the same drugs that are illegal in this country are illegal in Portugal - therefore selling them is illegal, and they clearly canā€™t be taxed. Thereā€™s a big difference between decriminalisation and legalisation.

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Mate, I hope that all works out for you. Sounds like some serious shit. Great that you and your son have that sort of relationship too. Hope you find your drug - if itā€™s not to be alcohol or cannabis. We all need one.

Good to see you back on here, Anal One. Hang around - although youā€™ll find most of us boasting about our alcohol consumption over the weekend.

Bletch

This was also discussed on the Reasons to be Cheerful podcast.

Ok lads and ladettes, hereā€™s the word from the horses mouth on the subject that I have rarely told many, especially people I have yet to met on an internet forum. Soā€¦

In the Autumn of '98, OzSaintDave moved out of home for the first time. No biggie one would think and he became pretty bored with life. What was his grand idea of the time? "I know, Iā€™ll go back to smoking some dope! I know I smoked some in High School and had a pretty fun time (chilled out, listened to cool music and made runs to the petrol station at odd hours for food).

So began a magical journey. At first it was pretty fun to smoke when you wanted, hang out and listen INTENTLY to Bob Dylan music but I did start to recluse myself from the world a bit at that point. Then I started to need it more. And more. And more. It got to the point that I quit my job believing that I was going to go to the USA to be a rock star!

So here I was smoking heavily with no job and then an old school mate gave me some ultra uber stuff that, well, pretty much blew my phooffer valve and I ended up in the looney bin for 3 months because they could not get me down from my high. Needles to the buttocks and everything. People who scared the shit out of you even though they were probably there for the same reasons. Literally for half that time I was so high I didnā€™t know if I was Arthur or Martha! So, after I roamed around the Psych Hospital for three months, I was honorably discharged into the care of my shell shocked parents who really had no clue as to what to do with me.

You would think that that would be the end of the story no? Well, two years after, I met a fellow who convinced me that dope doesnā€™t harm and is therapeutically good for you. Silly OzSaintDave believed all his rational and started smoking again. The best way to describe what happens when you go back to the trough for a second round is itā€™s a bit like a pregnant woman, in that the second child comes quicker. So I went from smoking for 6 months (which is in no way a long time!) to having my second episode in 6 weeks! So back I went to a Psych Hospital for some rest and recuperation.

Once released, I went back again home with my mum as dad had passed away two years prior and the following years were dark, depressing years. I did however (and to this day I still do not know how I managed to do this) manage to save/win enough gambling to get myself over to the 2006 World Cup. Good times they were.

End of the story? NO! After meeting my now wife, in 2009 we were trying to have a child and good ol OzSaintDave thought ā€œif I go off my meds (without doctors permission), maybe we will have a better chance of conceiving!ā€ The only outcome that had was straight to the Psych Hospital for round three!

So to tie the story all together, due to smoking weed I have experienced the goings on a 2 Psych Hospitals, met my wife, finally had two OzSaintDave jnrs, was retired from a job I held for 10 years on medical grounds onto a small but life-long pension and have managed to be on the road to owning the house I live in.

I have been dope free for 16 years and would I do anything any differently? No way! Iā€™m a firm believer that everything is synchronicity and it has made me who I am today. Yet choose wisely, you might just get what you wish for :lou_wink_2:

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Thanks for sharing that @OzSaintDave.

Wow, a powerful story - with what sounds like a relatively happy ending. Youā€™re in good company here as many of us have confessed our own mental health challenges.

I grew up in Gosport and had my first exposure to drugs at 14. I have known lads that, well, just arenā€™t alive any more because for them cannabis was a gateway - ultimately to heroin. Four lads I went to school with died within about 3 months of each other. Ugly. I have mates that still smoke daily but are now incredibly paranoid and anxious. I also have mates (and I fit into this category myself) that can take or leave it and just dabble every now and then.

I guess my question to you is, were you unlucky? Was there something about your wiring that made you likely to have such a reaction?

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Thanks @saintbletch for the kind words. Yes, happy ending in the end, thankfully. It could have gone v differently I guess but for the grace of doing a school report on Heroin and itā€™s, well, potential finality I decided it was never going to be a gateway drug.

I do also believe that I am hardwired to be susceptible to dope as my dad also had a disposition to slight epileptic fits which thank the universe wasnā€™t passed down.

It was the speed at which I unraveled at which really took me by surprise

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I guess you were lucky to have a support system around you. And the word lucky probably doesnā€™t do it justice.

Anyway, if I donā€™t go get some sleep my support system will be shouting at me tomorrow.

Gā€™night.

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Just a question

Does anyone know if they are building up to a mental health ā€œincidentā€ or does it just happen?

I get sad/ unhappy with life. As we all do. I worry about how to look after the olds, I care deeply about making sure my wife and kids are provided for by following a career that ultimately pays the bills (&more).

Why some days do I not wake up & go to work with a spring and a jump in my step?

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I think there are signs to look out for but it will be different for everyone. A couple of years ago (just before I joined sotonians come to think of it) I had moved myself to Nottingham for this ā€˜amazingā€™ job, only to find it anything but. I was stressed all the time, not sleeping, waking up on my days off in a blind panic thinking I had overslept, constantly behind on paperwork that kind of thing. I discussed these things with my boss and a colleague and sadly for me it was all kind of dismissed as worrying over nothing, until one day Iā€™m driving to a training course, get lost in Sheffield and that was the final straw, my brain snapped and I just pulled over and wailed uncontrollably for about 20 minutes. Needless to say I left that job soon after and to be honest I donā€™t think I ever fully recovered. So yeah there are signs and you should speak to someone if things are concerning you, and if they dismiss it speak to someone else.

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tl;dr donā€™t fixate on those feelings of sadness, but donā€™t ignore them either. Sometimes all we need is to learn some techniques to keep us focused on the positives and stop the chains of negative thoughts from starting or dominating. Happy to chat over PM.


Does it just happen?

Donā€™t know about others Cobber but I now know that I was depressed during most of my professional life. I didnā€™t realise it at the time and I was ā€˜strongā€™ enough to just carry on.

I had a very high-pressure job that involved lots of travel and stress which impacted on my sleep and physical health but some drive within me just pushed me forward and made me ignore just how unhappy I was most of the time.

It was like I was on auto-pilot and it was only if I missed my weekly game of football due to travel commitments that Iā€™d start to be aware of the stress. Iā€™m the calmest person youā€™re likely to meet IRL, but on a football pitch Iā€™m a real cunt. Football really was a stress release and without it, Iā€™d notice the build up in tension to the point where I started to wonder if this was a ā€˜normalā€™ feeling.

Thatā€™s not to say that I went around moping and unhappy all the time, far from it. I had great times socially during that period and my work colleagues would have thought that everything was fine - as did I really I suppose. Looking back, it was the mood swings and hair-trigger temper - usually reserved for the family that hindsight tells me wasnā€™t typical behaviour.

I moved out of direct corporate life and worked for myself as a consultant for 10+ years and, again hindsight informs me that I started to become quite insular. I worked from home most of the time and short, lucrative projects meant that I could, if I wanted to, have 6 months of the year ā€˜offā€™. My quality of life had improved but I wasnā€™t getting the levels of human contact I needed. Iā€™d often spend the morning in Costa Coffee ā€˜workingā€™ just to see people milling around me.

And then my Dad died and that was the trigger for my depression to slowly come to the forefront of my life. I took 3 months off work to look after my mum and afterwards I had no drive to network or look for the next contract. The ones I took werenā€™t as lucrative and I started to need to work but couldnā€™t face it.

I love walking and during this time that I had patchy work I would go for very long river/countryside walks and consider my situation. I told myself that I needed to get out and do something but all I did was get out and obsess about the problems I was facing. Everything felt wrong and I felt helpless to find a way out of where Iā€™d got myself.

During the walks I would, and Iā€™m told this is classic, look at trees and identify the good ones to hang myself from. I canā€™t now tell you that I was seriously suicidal but I can clearly remember the stark contrast between the complexity of solving my problems in life with the apparent simplicity of just going to sleep forever. At some points it felt like the logical and sensible thing to do.

I stayed in this fugue-like state for a long time, and people that knew me would probably not have guessed the depths of my unhappiness because I didnā€™t share it with anyone - not even my closest mates. Iā€™d hide it and try to stay strong for those around me but the pressure was increasing all the time.

I pretty much knew I was depressed by now and remember playing scenes in my head of going to the doctors and asking for help. I didnā€™t because of some sort of pride or refusal to acknowledge my weaknesses. Until one day I was in the doctorā€™s surgery for an unrelated condition and she said: ā€œIs there anything elseā€. And I said, ā€œYes, actually, I think I might be depressedā€.

Iā€™ve no idea where that came from. Seconds earlier I hadnā€™t planned to say it, but it came out. And with hindsight, it was the easiest thing in the world to do and it set me on a path towards being the happiest person I can possibly be.

Nowadays I do all I can to remove the stigma around male mental health issues. Sharing this is part of that process.

If anyone else reading this can relate to any of it, talk to someone about your feelings and seek help. It feels fucking fantastic to find a way to let the happiness in.

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Thanksā€¦Iā€™m luckyā€¦I love that you are all able to share.

Thatā€™s why I love this placeā€¦hmmm maybe I too am in need of help. :lou_wink:

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Hey C-S, Iā€™d recommend talking to your doctor. It may be just a period of sadness like everyone has, or it may be something more. Like the old cooking a frog analogy we become acclimatised to our state of mental health. When my GP told me I had depression it was hugely liberating in a weird way, because the alternative was to continue believing that I was actually the worst person alive and that I should be dead. Itā€™s quite nice sometimes to have someone tell you youā€™re just normal really.

Re drugs, when theyā€™re eventually all legalised as they should be, as the ā€˜war on drugsā€™ costs hundreds of thousands of lives, hopefully all the people incarcerated for selling drugs will get to be released and become the new entrepreneurs of the industry, rather than the already massively wealthy white men who own every other industry.

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Thanks everyone.

Really appreciated.

:lou_lol:

C_S

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Thereā€™s some gold in this thread. Possibly a group of ā€˜burnedā€™ swf-ers driving it. When I say 'gold ', I mean genuinely meaningful and useful statements. Iā€™m going to check out the mental elf thread I noticed and contribute to the appropriate one. Eventually.

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