Ah no, let me be clear - David Miliband would be a disaster.
1 Like
I see that Blair is warning the Labour Party not to lurch back to the Left. Hmmmm.
Careful now. He has the full support of the war criminal wing of the Labour Party.
2 Likes
To me, Blairâs comments reinforce my intention to vote for a non-Blairite candidate.
4 Likes
Me too. I donât know why the fucker thinks he has any business addressing what is left of the Labour Party.
3 Likes
I think the rise of Corbyn has a lot to do with that. His election would block an easy path for David Miliband - so goes the logic.
Iâm not sold on it myself. If Corbyn implodes, as surely he will, it could actually make it easier for Miliband to ride in as a saviour knight.
2 Likes
Think it would be a mistake to go for the older Miliband in any event, for all sorts of reasons. In fact, the number one reason for wanting him seems to be because he is the better of the Miliband brothers, which hardly seems like qualifications for running the country.
Personally, I am sick to death of all of the neo-liberal parties, and most fall into that category.
2 Likes
Principle over power young Pap. A notion that any good socialist should hold dear.
Love Bazza xxxxxxxxxxxxx
1 Like
Corbyn will be blocked anyway, I donât particularly like his stance but I admire it, I also admire him far more than the careerist politicians who are the other options.
If Burnham is the most down to Earth and leftist after Corbyn then we are fucked as a progressive centre left Party.
The ppe right on graduates will veto or block an actual real socialist, they would rather get elected being called a red tory than have any actuall moral scruples.
184 tories.
48 Loyal servants to the previous socialist generations.
1 Like
Well, the question of whether heâs the âbetterâ Miliband rather depends, at least partly, on the contents of the Chilcot report. Miliband Snr wasnât involved in any of the original rendition but he was involved - allegedly - in trying to cover it up/justify it, and - again, allegedly - was obstructive to those trying to get to the truth. Any strongly negative material in Chilcot will kill his canditature stone dead. Actually this was a contributory factor to his losing the first time around - itâs just that no one thought Chilcot could possibly take so long.
1 Like
Originally posted by @Barry-Sanchez
Principle over power young Pap. A notion that any good socialist should hold dear. Love Bazza xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Iâve fact-checked this Bazza and come up with the answer No. Good politics must always be the art of the possible. Principles are key, but they are often subverted by ostrich-like refusal to recognise certain political, social or economic realities.
1 Like
How can you hold true to an ideology if you are prepared to bend it to get a vote?
What principle is that? Listening to the voter (middle England) will merely copy the tories, no gain to be had there and also self defeating in the long run.
Knock the Labour Party down and rebuild around the core princples it was founded, its the weakest left wing coalition I have ever seen and the reason is a lack of direction due to trying to grab the centre ground, selection lists and too many ppe graduate careerist politicians who donât know their electorate.
3 Likes
Jeremy Corbyn could change anything. Govt holds no actual power
couldnât even
Or something , Iâm retreating from the political debate :s Iâll stick to posting music youtube videos 
3 Likes
Originally posted by @Barry-Sanchez
Originally posted by @Furball
Originally posted by @Barry-Sanchez
Principle over power young Pap. A notion that any good socialist should hold dear. Love Bazza xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Iâve fact-checked this Bazza and come up with the answer No. Good politics must always be the art of the possible. Principles are key, but they are often subverted by ostrich-like refusal to recognise certain political, social or economic realities.
How can you hold true to an ideology if you are prepared to bend it to get a vote? What principle is that? Listening to the voter (middle England) will merely copy the tories, no gain to be had there and also self defeating in the long run. Knock the Labour Party down and rebuild around the core princples it was founded, its the weakest left wing coalition I have ever seen and the reason is a lack of direction due to trying to grab the centre ground, selection lists and too many ppe graduate careerist politicians who donât know their electorate.
That wasnât what I was saying Barry. I wasnât suggesting you abandon an âideologyâ to win a vote, but rather responding to your slogan of âprinciple over powerâ, which is some variant of wrong and self-defeating.
Politics is about principles. Itâs also about objectives and policies and practicalities.
If you go gung-ho for âprinciplesâ, all youâre putting up to an electorate is a point of view. No one was ever elected - nor should they be - for a point of view.
But the more serious problem has to do with the law of unintended consequences.
Corbyn is popular among a certain strain of Labour supporter for being a kind of British Tsipras, whoâll turn Labour into a vote-winning Syriza (already you can see principles starting to fade behind the whizzy appeal of populist leftism).
Well, look what just happened to Tsipras. On principle, he faced down the EU after the latter made an offer (if thatâs the word) on debt restructuring. On principle he went to a referendum. The Greek electors voted No by two to one. Tsipras proudly took this back to Brussels, the EU faced him down, and he caved. The refendum No turned into a mealy mouthed Yes. And what he ended up with was by far a worse deal than the one that the EU originally offered!
So beware of the seductive attractiveness of principles. Exclude the other considerations and youâve a good chance of being exposed as a fantastically dreadful politician who makes the very people youâre trying to help worse off rather than better.
1 Like
I shall lol when the British people vote to leave the EU and Brussels looks up briefly and says âno, sorry you canât, bye.â
Cameron is already half way out on that particular gang plank. Heâs made the keystone of his ârenegotiationâ an exception to the free movement of labour. The EU in turn regards free movement as the keystone of its own existence - and theyâve already said: no deal.
They couldnât have been clearer, yet Cameron blathers on as if theyâll magically change their minds when he comes knocking. They wonât; heâll lose. Then heâs stuck - what the hell does he go to a referendum on? His anti-EU backbenchers will be baying to go to the country on a No recommendation. He will face colossal pressure from vast business interests (natural Tories, of course), and the whole thing will be an even bigger disaster than the Scottish referendum (almost) was.
Hence why Labour is far from âfinishedâ. Never underestimate the Toriesâ ability to step on their own landmines.
Just donât elect CorbynâŚ
1 Like
Out of interest - can anyone else throw their hat into the ring or has that door been closed.
The Blairites not wanting to serve on the same front bench as Corbyn highlights just how much they fear a jolt left. They dont want to be tarred by association.