Here’s the franchise renewal schedule. You can plot your decidedly miniscule ‘nationalisation’ from this.
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Originally posted by @CB-Saint
I understand, however if the party membership elect Corbyn and the MPs refuse to back him as the parliamentary leader, then those MPs still have to answer to their consituencies who get to decide who their parliamentary candidate wil be for the next election.
My point is if the MPs go against the wishes of their membership then they completely open themselves to accusations of being undemocratic.
All true. Actually, whoever wins and whatever happens, it’s going to get very ugly.
If Corbyn wins and demonstrates his unsuitability to run a whelk stall, MPs have a way out which overcomes the problem of any residual unpopularity. If they lose confidence in their leader, MPs alone have the power to call a “special” Labour Party conference to elect a new leader.
As I say, it’s not going to be pretty.
What plan?
You are talking about the timetable of things passing into public ownership.
I am simply stating that when they do become nationalised industries, the private companies (or foreign governments) that used to own them can no longer profit. It is a plainly stated case.
Your words:-
Yes they do [foreign state owned energy companies] make money from running UK railways. That’s not news. And it’s madness. Nationalisation won’t solve it.
And yes it will.
There’s nothing more I can say on this because you’ve stopped making sense. You seem to be saying now - version three - that the Corbyn nationalisation policy is a theoretical exercise; and in that theoretical exercise, franchises that go into public ownership cease to be private.
Um, yes.
Are you saying:
a) Corbyn wants to nationalise the entire network and will pay the bill to do so?
b) Corbyn wants to act like a kind of state robber baron and nationalise without compensation
c) Corbyn wants to nationalise only when the franchises become renewable (Burnham’s and the Greens’ policy)
d) Other
I can only respond to my original material, not the spin-offs.
I will not entertain every tangent spawned when I’ve answered the point several times.
You made a sweeping and indefensible statement and got called for it. It happens. Move on.
You seem to have failed to a grasp a simple fact about how the franchise renewal works. Once again, they are for SEVEN-year terms. And most will be set by the present government. Therefore only a very few will be available to be cancelled by a putative Corbyn government.
So if Corbyn is going to nationalise, how is he going to do it?
Originally posted by @pap
You made a sweeping and indefensible statement and got called for it. It happens. Move on.
My statement stands. Nationalisation won’t work, and you’ve wriggled like hell to get around it to no avail.
A Corbyn government has the following options.
-
Wait for the few franchises to expire and take them into public ownership. Problem: there are too few of them coming up for renewal after 2020 to legimitately call this ‘nationalisation’ of the rail system.
-
Go for full scale nationalisation. Not only will this be COLOSSALLY expensive - it’ll also put shedloads of taxpayers’ money into the pockets of the foreign companies/utilities that are profiting now. so on this count, nationalisation won’t work.
-
Nationalise without compensation. The awful effects on confiidence will be only one of many consequencves to this. On this count, nationalisation won’t work.
That wasn’t the point I was responding to. Please stop moving the goalposts, Furball. I say again, you made a sweeping and indefensible statement and got called for it.
Now you’re trying to wriggle out with it problems of implementation that weren’t part of your statement.
Here is a video of Corbyn saying how he is going to bring stuff back into public ownership, for the avoidance of any doubt. (Spoiler. He’s letting the franchises expire)
Seven year franchises do not alter the fact that when these companies eventually pass into public ownership, we’ll stop paying foreign governments for our core services like railways and will start contributing to our own.
Then by letting the franchises expire he’ll only succeed in bringing a fraction of them into public ownership. Therefore his policy of nationalisation won’t work.
You really have a comprehension problem.
Anyway, with that out of the way, what hair-brained policy shall we take down next? This is fun.
Originally posted by @Furball
Then by letting the franchises expire he’ll only succeed in bringing a fraction of them into public ownership. Therefore his policy of nationalisation won’t work.
Oh, so we’re narrowing the argument to his policy of nationalisation, rather than the concept in the abstract. I see.
You really have a comprehension problem.
If that’s true, we both do. I’ve asked that you stop making this kind of “play the man” argument, and you’re still doing it. You might want to think about how your modus operandi of attacking people reconciles itself with the stated aims of the About Us page.
Anyway, with that out of the way, what hair-brained policy shall we take down next? This is fun.
Given that most of this “fun” is happening in your own head, why not just internalise it all there? You’ll win every time, I promise.
Furball / pap. Thoroughly enjoying the debate, but can we keep the personal observations about each other out of the discussion please?
Also if you’ve reached an impasse on a specific issue, and you’ve been at it long enough, perhaps move on to other points?
You’ve probably made all the points/progress you can.
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And so it goes - although much earlier than I’d have thought possible.
From that Telegraph article…
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It’ll be interesting to see whether Corbyn survives the media barrage. They’re really going for him now. The attack du jour seems to be the anti-semitism angle, largely because someone he’s met went on to be a Holocaust denier. Pathetic line of attack, really. I knew people that went on to be murderers. No-one would assume that I’m in the murderin’ trade too.
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Corbyn to apologise on behalf of Labour Party for Iraq if he becomes leader.
The Labour leadership frontrunner Jeremy Corbyn is to issue a public apology over the Iraq war on behalf of the party if he becomes leader next month, a move Tony Blair repeatedly resisted.
In a statement to the Guardian, Corbyn said he would apologise to the British people for the “deception” in the runup to the 2003 invasion and to the Iraqi people for their subsequent suffering.
Such an apology would be important symbolically – particularly in a party where Iraq remains a sore point, 12 years after Britain joined the US in the invasion – and signal a wider departure from existing Labour’s defence and foreign policy.
For such a short lifespan, this forum has a scary amount of references to Rowdy Roddy Piper, and we didn’t even do his obit.
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Ellen Ripley would kick Jeremy’s butt.
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Lordy, Louise Mencsh has been her usual attack dog self, with hilarious results. She’s spent the last couple of weeks trying to convince people that Corbyn supporters are anti-semites. Ready for hilarity?
So we’re good? Let’s move on.
The little X by each of these phrases means these are @LouiseMensch’s own searches and NOT autocompletes pic.twitter.com/k24QbtfLmN
The plot thickens! She’s made it all up 
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/08/21/louise-mensch-twitter-jeremy-corbyn_n_8022926.html I preferred her when she was a sexy rock chick, tbh. Way to bring glory to your husband’s name, Louise!
Lol.
Or the sewer that is Louise Mensch’s own mind?
Or perhaps the truth is just somewhere in the middle.
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She’s quite something. I read her Tweet timeline over the past couple of weeks. Someone clearly hellbent on an agenda, utterly exposing that motivation last night.
Quite how she thinks she’s got any political capital after abandoning her constituents is beyond me.