:nhs: If we value the NHS why don't we fully pay the correct

:nhs: If we value the NHS why don't we fully pay the correct
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#21

Who is John McDonald, does he run a farm?


#22

Damn autocorrect.

You gonna tell me how the French tax system is fairer btw?


#23

Think we’d save a lot more money if we paid people decent wages to start with. The agency and contractors bill must be huge. Most people in that sector are driven there by low pay, and no-one really wins. The agency staff trade job security to be able to live, the NHS loses good people and ends up having to pay emergency rates on a continual basis.

So while I agree that funding is the key issue, they should ensure the dosh gets to the staff.


#24

Training,training,training, start valuing doctors and nurses again. Its always cheaper to source from overseas without the cost of training, this Country is about cost not long term investement hence money is needed for it to improve, how can it at its current state? The Country is goosed.


#25

It’s a symptom, and one I don’t have a solution to.

But, from my relatively short stint and the tales I hear from the gf, the wastage in the NHS is a huge issue. I have no idea one goes about solving this, as it would be a monumental task.

From what I could gather, a large part of the problem was the NHS not only became a health service, but a form of work fare. It’s a great way to make jobs for folk that need them. I’m not mad keen on reshaping the NHS in a way that means lots of people find themselves out of work, but for me, I want the NHS to be there to provide medical care. Not provide jobs for people.

I know that sounds pretty callous, but, as it is the NHS is unsustainable. That is simply a fact. Things need to change, there are societal problems, which it’s hard to address. Namely, a a population we are getting older, and living longer. We eat too much, and too much shit. We drink too much, smoke too much and don’t do enough exercise. The cost of these things is monumental, and I have doubts that unless we act to turn the tide of these issues, raising taxes is going to cover the shortfall in funding.


#26

Well said. Throwing money at the NHS has been going on for a long long while, and while significant investment is both necessary and costly, it fails to address in itself any of the many varied issues you set out above.


#27

So how about we get rid of the rdiculous amount of suits at the top and start paying the wages to the people who do the “real” jobs.

As Pap say we should be paying the Nurses and Doctors proper wages so that they don’t feel they have to go through agencies, which cost the NHS much more!

Once that has been sorted the money saved can go into the infrastructure and improving the others services needed for healthcare.

BTW we already pay 30-41% basic tax if you take NI into account.


#28

No we don’t probably closer to 25-26%. The suits are a massive cost and waste but still only the tip of the iceberg.


#29

Smoking, drinking and a healthy lifestyle are the reasons why we are living longer, obesity is a huge issue but one of the biggest costs is that we are living longer.


#30

Over 50% fewer newly qualified nurses this year in the South. Stopping that bursary has fucked recruitment good and proper.
Mrs G reckons when she qualified her group would have to compete for jobs. Now there is a huge surplus of vacancies.


#31

Maybe get rid of bank/agency nurses, pay them a decent wage (similar or better than agency rates) and I suspect the problem would go away, or significantly reduce?

I know fuck all about nursing so am not really qualified to suggest solutions and state what is right for other people, like on many other topics

:lou_wink_2:


#32

Nope. There aren’t enough NEWLY QUALIFIED nurses. Normally there would be over 200 newly qualified nurses looking for work each year in our area, fresh out of University. This year there are 100. It’s not the wages that are the issue it’s the opportunity to get that far.


#33

You didn’t let me finish my edit…


#34

No worries.
I fear a Tory Government will give zero fucks anyway. The sooner the NHS fails the sooner they can sell it off.


#35

Yep, that’s the plan.


#36

And that’s the big issue here - and why Brexit is so damaging to the NHS (again, something that we’ve been arguing for the last few years now).

What has happened over the last few years is a perfect storm or wank for our country and the NHS. You have 3 main issues:

  • Tory Government in power
  • Brexit
  • Ineffective Opposition

Point 1 & 3 has allowed the Tory Government carte blanche on their fucking shitty ideas about privatising the NHS, making cuts to social services and benefits, and just general fuckwittery.

Point 2 has reduced the power of the NHS to plough it’s own furrow - it means that agency/3rd party nurses are now needed to plug the gap that Brexit has now created/is now creating. The Tories can point to it failing, can blame a lack of investment on the stalling economy due to Brexit, and can push forward on privatising parts of the NHS.


#37

Hmmm, not so sure on this, the NHS has had problems recruiting for the shortfall because EU laws mean that they can no longer go outside of the EU (India for example) to get the staff they need. The jobs need to be filled by EU nationals. This has meant that the “lower” roles are not being filled.

Top that with a lot of nurses quitting the NHS (generally over pay and conditions) and then going to work for agencies that charge the NHS much more. It’s a pretty agressive self fulfilling prophecy.

I know that there are cries of the NHS being privatised by stealth (and I can’t disagree with this) but any party that culls the NSH would be committing political suicide. Plus it would have to get voted through parliament and then through Lords, I can’t see it happening easily.

Question though, how many on here have private health insurance through company schemes? If so aren’t you already fuelling the embers of disbanding the NHS by having such policies?


#38

Nearly all the doctors and nurses around my way(hospital & GPs) are non EU.
I don’t get how that can be if your first paragraph is correct.
Am i missing something?


#39

They non EU as we don’t train enough here, the fault of many Governments, the brain drain and cost to other nations is huge as well.


#40

That’s not what i was asking.
Do you know how many Indian and Filipinos train as doctors and nurses?
They could employ them all, even if they wanted too. They pick those careers specifically for foreign work.