If you need cheering up just look around here, there’s always someone worse off than you.
If that fails, go over to the other side - if you can’t find someone on there who has a shitter life, then you really should be worried.
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Life is like a trampoline! - sometimes you’re down, and other times. . . all the springs get rusty and snap.
OK guys - put in an application with EY (we’ll see how that goes) and currently working my way through the tests with KPMG. Passed the situational judgement one - will do the rest of them tomorrow. Going to call it a night for now.
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I have to ask, as someone who has heard nothing but bad things about working for any of the Big 4, why are you so obsessed at going to work for one of them? You can get a better job, working for a ‘nicer’ company, on better money without having to put yourself through all this shit. Also, why do you want to go into the world of auditing. I know quite a few people who do it, and none of them enjoy it.
I think I just have a natural inclination towards something that’s the complete polar opposite of what I tried to do after uni (i.e journalism - supposedly ‘fun’ but low-paid and in all honesty, actually not that fun if you’re just writing about finance and your copy gets edited to shit).
Anyway, everyone who’s gone to work for the Big 4 that I know seems to be happy enough. Tired, yes, but in a stable career which allows them to do more or less what they like outside of that.
Finally, I’ve realised that whilst I’m a fairly creative person in that I do enjoy writing, that absolutely does not mean that I ought to be doing it as a career. Whilst there’s a lot to be said for the autonomy of a creative role, I think in my working life I adjust better to having a mission to complete, so to speak, where even if the work is boring I know precisely what I’m supposed to be doing and there are clear metrics to what defines success and failure. To put it bluntly? Work is work and I find it relatively hard to imagine myself doing a job that I actively “enjoy” beyond satisfaction/fulfillment. As I say, if you really do manage to do something you actively enjoy and get paid for it, then hey, more power to you - but I don’t think that’s a realistic goal for me.
However, if you have any recommendations of where to apply I’d very gladly take any advice. I’m applying everywhere at the moment. I know you posted the link to Accountancy Age’s top 50 so I’ll happily apply my way through that.
I may also have a crack at some of the CIMA-based finance schemes at a few other firms. At the moment I’m just smashing applications out really.
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To paraphrase Princess Leia, if money is all that you love, why not do something _really _lucrative in the Jordan Belfour style (Star Wars and Wolf of Wall Street referenced in a single sentence - only on Sotonians).
Even if you don’t take that path, there are plenty of boring yet defined jobs out there working for loads of other firms which you’d probably find more personally and politically rewarding. Finance Director is a good gig in most corporations, at a cost centre or corporate level. Financial Services Divisions are feared and revered worldwide. They collect the money.
There are opportunities to improve everywhere, and if you’ve done as well in those Big 4 tests in a highly competitive field, imagine how well you’d do in a company that hasn’t seen much of your like, or the difference you could make in a small firm where one person can do wonders.
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Or go into IT. Highly paid for what tends to be low stress and short(er) hours.
I would recommend CIMA, but only outside of big organisations. I would also recommend Business Analysis - get in somewhere as a Junior BA and go from there (tend to start on about £30k in London, but it’s easy to get decent at it and increase your areas of knowledge/expertise before branching off to a Finance sector or out on your own.
Twenty years in, I honestly don’t disagree with that. I have my stressful moments. I’ve had some this morning. but they are few and far between.
The one thing that you can’t do, but I somehow seem to manage, is get behind on the old skills. I had a really tough period a few years ago in which I learned MVC, nHibernate, Dependency Injection and MVVM all at the same time. Multi-level whackamole.
It’s a no-brainer if you already like computers. A tough first few years, but after that, most things seem easy to you and seem impossible to others. My boss can’t do my job. That’s always a good spot to be in.
Dude, I’ll take anything. And money isn’t ‘all I love’ - all I’m looking for is a stable and solid career. It sounds like IT is a great gig but I haven’t got the first clue. I haven’t done any sort of coding or programming etc. in my life.
Thought you were self employed pap?
I know money isn’t all that you love, but you do see it as a vital means to getting what you love, or at least a standard of living that you’re comfortable with. Like many, you’ve identified the big four as a potential means of achieving that. I’m just illustrating that there are other ways to get to the same place.
I’m not suggesting that you immediately embark in a career in IT, but respectfully, not many people know the first thing about any job when they first start. My first few years in the trade were highly variable. In my first job, I felt useless. Second job was entirely uninspiring, but hit a bit of gold with my third. Even so, I wouldn’t consider myself to have been both professionally and personally competent until about the age of 29. Political competence came even later.
There are big parallels between life and programming. The programmer in the worst spot is one that doesn’t know exactly what he or she is supposed to be doing. Programs rarely get completed under those circumstances. It has only occassionally been a problem for me. In the professional context, I seek clarification. In the personal context, having a kid at twenty made life’s overall mission pretty clear.
I reckon you’ve got it slightly harder than me in that sense. When the missus and I were split up for a few years, I had trouble finding the motivation because I didn’t feel as if I was fighting for as much. “Me” just didn’t seem a worthy enough cause. The fact that the market is so much more competitive isn’t going to help either.
FWIW, I don’t think you’re going to have any problems long-term. Interviews are much easier when you’ve done a few of them. Last time I was out of work, first few interviews were touch and go, but had my pick of the last few. Get to the interview stage of EY and you’ll probably do better. Best of luck though, Tramps. If you can present yourself as articulately as you’ve managed here, I doubt you’ll need it.
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Nor did I or do I. Not all IT jobs require a in-depth knowledge of systems.
I am, but I’ve also been self-employed long enough to know that you always have a boss, even if you call them customers.
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Cheers Pap.
Got a nice little message off a mate who worked for PwC for a bit. He was the one who encouraged me to go for it in the first place:
“Ahh mate I’m sorry that sucks and if it helps- its a good question and is potentially an indicator of a guilty conscience! Put simply, there’s a lot going on that is quite dodgy, quite regularly. Unsurprisingly PwC is fairly against mandatory rotation, and selling their services a key item on their agenda. The question is good! Its interesting and its a key audit issue- it goes against the principles of an accountant’s code of conduct, and how self-interest is a major threat to independence. If he was worth his salt then he’d be able to tell you about the safeguards that should be in place in a company as big as PwC to ensure that impartiality can be maintained and consciences can be clean whilst providing multiple services. Glad you’re not beating yourself up too much as you shouldn’t be- now that you’ve done your research you should have a better idea of how much you want to do this and if you do, then great! There’s a huge number of firms out there. Also, there’s a good chance you’d be working for that man- do you really want to work under someone who can’t answer a basic ethical question and reacts badly when asked something like that? Chalk it down to bad luck because 9/10 that is a question that would go down well. See what your other mates think too.”
Top bloke as I haven’t really spoken to him for ages post-uni - but then he came back at me with a tonne of encouragement throughout the process when I messaged him on LinkedIn.
Got any companies you’d recommend at all? Business analyst seems pretty vague and I’d assume that you’d have to be an expert in whatever sector they’d specialise in. I’d be happy to earn even £23-24k in all honesty. Main thing is getting my foot on the ladder somehow.
EDIT: Done my application for BDO. Got rejected from Mazars as I failed their situational judgement test. Same thing for the Civil Service fast stream. Asked for extenuating circumstances (280 UCAS) for the national audit office but they put me through to a survey where I had to fill in a bunch of details about my family background. (race/gender/sexuality and whatnot) as ‘contextual information’ - so we can forget about that I guess.
Did the tests for KPMG and (the maths, certainly) was fucking hard, os that could go either way. Having said that, I’m pretty sure anyone would find it pretty damn hard as well. EY got back to me with an automated email and said they’ve received unprecedented numbers of applications etc. and they’ll get back to me when they can.
As some of my little anecdotes show, one door opens as another closes. Sounds like you got a good mate there, and if you do end up going the Big 4 route, I’m sure he’ll give you good advice, but his email does speak to the moral quandary that working for a firm like that. Have a read of Owen Jones’ Establishment. It’ll either make you never want to be part of it (or scarily, make you even more interested).
Perhaps when I’m less gainfully employed, I’ll be less selective in what I work on, but typically, I won’t work for people that are taking the royal piss out of the poor or are making money replacing a government service, especially if they’re doing it badly. I worked for one of these firms in the 2000s. The amount of money they wilfully and knowingly pulled from governments through cynical manipulation (such as gov’s propensity to have too many cooks) was scandalous.
I recently got into it with Bill Cook, Cap Gemini alumni, about private sector stuff in general, but specifically their dreadful record of cost overrun and (lack of) delivery. You can be sure that Bill made money regardless, but that’s pretty much all the made apart from giant hot messes.
The IT game is wide enough to allow you avoid that. I’m sure the world of finance is exactly the same.
Yeah. I don’t want to work for scumbags myself but it feels like its rather a case of ‘choose your poison’. You know, for a long time I actually thought about becoming a firefighter, problem is they’re just never hiring in London (and I seriously need to sort my shit out in terms of getting a driving licence which is a prerequisite).
The charity sector also appealed - but some of them are even more scummy and hypocritical than those in finance who you know are at least, out for their own gain in an ‘honestly dishonest’ sense. (Don’t donate to Save The Children - evereverever - their whole gig is based on ‘selling’ disasters whilst never actually fixing anything long-term - however, I digress).
So, yup. Accounting is fine for me. I don’t think I’ll ever enjoy my work because I don’t think I’ll ever enjoy something I have to do. Hey, frankly I think I’d manage to get bored of being a porn star if that door was open to me (ok probably not), but you get the idea - if I have to do something I have a natural aversion to it I suppose. Put it down to a rebellious streak I guess.
So, yeah. Tapping away and doing fairly bland and simple tasks as an accountant will do me just fine. As long as job security isn’t an issue and I can live comfortably (renting is fine) and not have to turn down things like having a family purely because of my job situation I’ll settle for that. If I go beyond that, then woop-tee-doo I guess.
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OK, so what I’ve gathered from this is that you don’t know what a Business Analyst does. It’s fine, not many people do.
A BA is essentially a conduit between the business and the IT development team. When a new opportunity, new market, changes to legal procedures, new business, new platform needs to be investigated, a business analyst is required to work out exactly what is needed, how the process will work and integration into the current systems architecture. If the process is manual, then it’s manual and you’ll also deal with many projects that are.
As a Junior BA you won’t be required to have experience in the sector you’re working in (my degree is in Economics and Law), but you should start on about £26-30k. To become a BA should take about 3 years and you’ll be on £40-50k and then after about 3 years you should be a Senior BA which should pay £50-80k as a permanent member or £150k if a contractor.
Personally, I have only ever worked past 5.30 once and have never worked past 7. It is not a late working industry, and pretty much anyone can do it (as I’ve demonstrated).
In relation to recommendations I can only recommend where I started, but there are always a number of jobs on the boards so have a look on CW Jobs and see what is out there.
As long as you never want to go on holiday on the first or last week of the month…it’s actually a right fucking pain.