By the way @KRG, there’s something I’ve been meaning to tell you…
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I think I remember saying that if Corbyn stayed as leader of the Labour party it would give the Tories carte blanche to be as big a cunts as they want to be, as Corbyn is such poor opposition.
When was your prediction for that May wouldn’t last until? I think it was last Christmas wasn’t it?
No-one else wanted the job.
I genuinely thought she’d not survive the political fallout from the heartbreaking Grenfell fire. Not only was pretty much all of this on her bailiwick, directly or indirectly, she now places trust in Gavin Barwell, who’s greatest political achievement has been ostensibly searching for Arab porn publicly enough for Google to notice.
I was wrong on timing.
I reckoned without the complete connivance of a corporate and/or cowed media. Which I probably should have factored in. Previous governments have been buried for less.
Arab porn? Only ever seen that one of the beardy bloke shagging a goat… that could have been Pap and Goaty right enough…
Was he stood on a box?
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I hate momentum and all the Jonny come latelys who’ve now taken over the party and pushed it into a place we may never recover, I love Corbyn but 50% of the Country doesn’t and at least 25% of his own tribe think he’s a good bloke but too left, the reactionaries of the left have taken over, the results of other parties broken promises and this is where were at.
Shit street.
If David Miliband was leader we’d be slap bang in the middle of the political spectrum but 15 points ahead so what do we do?
I say get all the manifesto’s and promise them like the previous pledge cards (Blair promptly broke those promises but there we go) but let Corbyn go with dignity and get someone in who’ll win us the election, if we win bring Corbyn back into the fold on the front bench.
Where will the reactionaries go if we lose the next election?
The greens and the liberals.
They should go now.
You seen it to… although it might have been a donkey … donkey/goat not really sure it mattered
I have no idea how accurate the Government preparedness papers are for no deal… but given they are published by the Government, they make pretty shitty reading… from agricultural food exchange, price rises, credit card and banking and pension problems… looks like one big fucking quagmire of shit to me… now that ain’t me playing the scare story card just my pretty rational reaction to government released document… now it May be Mays (boom) clever ploy to try and get public opinion to push for a deal as opposed to accepting Boris and RMs bull that no deal is fine… but there are 7 months to go and a shit load to resolve… I can’t see it happening …
“Crap cup of tea” Brexit, init.
Coffee drinker me mate… European influence
As seen on Artist Taxi Driver on Twitter this morning, Starmer saying that a second referendum is on the table and that that is the official Labour position and one that is supported by McDonald (amongst others).
To be fair his qualification is that it would only be in the event of Article 50 being voted down and he’s not explicitly saying a second referendum would happen. Instead he’s saying that everything is on the table.
I feel that Labour needs to be very clear, clearer than it has been so far, on Brexit should a snap GE back called.
Brexit could hand power to the Tories again if Labour isn’t seen to embrace Remain voters.
In the absence of a second referendum, the next General Election will be that second referendum.
Didn’t I read a couple of days ago that Corbyn had reiterated that it wasn’t on the table
Is Starmer making a play for the top job?
Don’t know and I guess that might be my point. A confused message on Brexit is dangerous.
Sounds like he’s doing the usual political cake and eat it act. “Don’t ignore us we stand for everything”.
Four and a half million Labour voters went for Brexit, @saintbletch.
During the last election, eighty percent of voters went for parties dedicated to upholding the Brexit result, at least as far as their manifestos went.
Additionally, we had one party go all out on the Remain ticket. It didn’t do very well.
I’m not sure how that changes anything I wrote though, @pap.
All that you said might be true, but Labour still lost.
If Labour doesn’t embrace the Remain desire, or at least feel like a palatable place for Remainers to be partially represented, then that will remove votes from Labour.
And if votes move away from Labour, that will not help them to a better performance in a general election.
Do you disagree?
It’s why Starmer is trying to paint Labour as being all things to all people, I believe.
And as I’ve said if there isn’t a second referendum (which I’m not campaigning for BTW), then the next General election will be a referendum on Brexit.
If it’s a snap election (before we leave) then it will, for some, be about reversing the decision.
If it happens after we leave, then it will be about shaping / re-shaping Brexit for many and reversing Brexit for some too.
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Starmer is “ideologically” motivated. The only reason he’s not more of a liability right now is because the Conservatives are that bad.
And if Labour is bone-wittingly stupid enough to make its election about Remaining, it’ll lose. Given the reported preferences of the leadership, I can see absolutely no reason why it should.
Yeah, I agree with that logic but, sorry, I don’t think I was clear there.
I’m not suggesting Labour come out and advocate reversing the decision to invoke article 50.
When I said…
…I meant that I feel that Labour should still feel like a home for people like me.
I voted Remain. The vote went the other way. Even though it was only an advisory vote, I accept that it gave politicians the absolute right to invoke article 50. I accept that it is the will of the people. I think it’s a mistake and I want to ‘leave the EU’ in the least disruptive way possible and if it becomes clear that this will be catastrophically damaging for our country and its people, I want to be represented by someone with big enough balls to row back.
I guess I’m probably not alone because, if your 4.5M Labour voting Brexit supporters stat is correct (not doubting it, just haven’t seen the analysis), and if Labour got nearly 13M* votes in the last election then it suggests** that there are probably more people like me than like you.
Disenfranchise ‘us’ and Labour loses the next election - is my prediction. So I feel Labour needs to be clear (clearer) where it stands.
EDIT: For this bit earlier
And your comment…
…is really quite telling. It’s not a difficult leap to see Corbyn, ahead of the next election, portrayed by the media as a hard-Brexit supporting, dithering antisemite. And that will impact Corbyn negatively.
If you, a very committed and active Labour man have to use words like “reported preference” then something isn’t being clearly communicated.
* Labour got 12,877,918 votes in 2017
** I say suggests because I’m making a lot of assumptions across two different elections - but there is enough of a delta to suggest Labour is not dominated by Brexit supporters.
Well I’ll be damned.
So I am up to my neck in powerpoints and market reports and stuff as mentioned elsewhere. I need “external independent research data” to support a “report”
Now having followed this thread and Twitter and msm the absolutely LAST place I would have expected to find (one of) those data paoints would be in?
A UK Government targetted Post Brexit Industry Impact Report. It is even REALLY positive about “the Opportunities” blimey.
Take That ye disbelievers!
And no you really don’t want to have to read the whole damned pdf and yes here is a link to the summary for ye olde disbelievers
And no, it has no impact on this thread or the arguments herein. I a just actually shocked that people have actually spent some time preparing for it alll 