# šŸ‡ŗšŸ‡¦ The War/Invasion in/of Ukraine **URL:** \ **Category:** Reasonably serious discussion\ **Created:** [4 March 2022 23:25 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/the-war-invasion-in-of-ukraine/6414 "2022-03-04T23:25:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Not\_Barry](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/not_barry/32/71329_2.png) [@Not\_Barry](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Not_Barry)\ **Post date:** [15 March 2022 19:53 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/the-war-invasion-in-of-ukraine/6414/403 "2022-03-15T19:53:09Z")
The Ā£400 Million was held for ā€œsecurity reasonsā€, saved for a rainy day. the Iranians canā€™t wait to spend the money, what on I wonder, their people? ---
**Author:** ![Cobham-Saint](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/cobham-saint/32/99252_2.png) [@Cobham-Saint](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Cobham-Saint)\ **Post date:** [15 March 2022 20:03 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/the-war-invasion-in-of-ukraine/6414/404 "2022-03-15T20:03:33Z")
Funnily enough šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![Cobham-Saint](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/cobham-saint/32/99252_2.png) [@Cobham-Saint](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Cobham-Saint)\ **Post date:** [15 March 2022 20:07 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/the-war-invasion-in-of-ukraine/6414/405 "2022-03-15T20:07:39Z")
Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but after reading the Evening Standard full of patriotic tub thumping by Evgeny Lebedevā€˜s minions I noticed this - good old Britannia harking back to past glories ![image](https://discourse-sotonians-uploads.s3.dualstack.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/original/3X/a/a/aaaf7fbf2b0f393785351a32b31c708c53a1dabd.jpeg) Seems very embarrassing tbh ---
**Author:** ![pap](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/pap/32/74795_2.png) [@pap](https://www.sotonians.com/u/pap)\ **Post date:** [15 March 2022 21:09 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/the-war-invasion-in-of-ukraine/6414/406 "2022-03-15T21:09:01Z")
> ---
**Author:** ![Polski\_Filip](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/polski_filip/32/75318_2.png) [@Polski\_Filip](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Polski_Filip)\ **Post date:** [15 March 2022 22:34 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/the-war-invasion-in-of-ukraine/6414/407 "2022-03-15T22:34:16Z")
Interesting. The Russian TV Editor who held up a no war sign on State TV Got a Ā£215 fine for herā€¦ Blog post. The EEU PMs went to Kiev. If they get back I sense some movement towards a deal ---
**Author:** ![Donkey\_Schlong](https://www.sotonians.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Donkey\_Schlong](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Donkey_Schlong)\ **Post date:** [15 March 2022 22:35 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/the-war-invasion-in-of-ukraine/6414/408 "2022-03-15T22:35:18Z")
8 years ago: [![](https://discourse-sotonians-uploads.s3.dualstack.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/original/3X/e/3/e3f723f93f98474b22706dbb4790b5d2e4f59bb8.jpeg "Should the West go to war over the Ukraine?") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS8QH2eG6uk) ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Barry](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/not_barry/32/71329_2.png) [@Not\_Barry](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Not_Barry)\ **Post date:** [15 March 2022 22:57 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/the-war-invasion-in-of-ukraine/6414/409 "2022-03-15T22:57:51Z")
Corbyn is actually saying its up for the Ukrainian people to decide, I agree, it is. ---
**Author:** ![pap](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/pap/32/74795_2.png) [@pap](https://www.sotonians.com/u/pap)\ **Post date:** [16 March 2022 07:34 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/the-war-invasion-in-of-ukraine/6414/410 "2022-03-16T07:34:54Z")
So presumably you have no problem with the people of Donbass and Crimea deciding for themselves? ---
**Author:** ![CB-Saint](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/cb-saint/32/95251_2.png) [@CB-Saint](https://www.sotonians.com/u/CB-Saint)\ **Post date:** [16 March 2022 07:46 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/the-war-invasion-in-of-ukraine/6414/411 "2022-03-16T07:46:36Z")
Iā€™ve read somewhere that the Russians have suffered more losses that the US did after 8 years in Iraq and 20 years in Afghanistan, and they are fast approaching their own record for their disastrous Afghan campaign ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Barry](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/not_barry/32/71329_2.png) [@Not\_Barry](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Not_Barry)\ **Post date:** [16 March 2022 07:49 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/the-war-invasion-in-of-ukraine/6414/412 "2022-03-16T07:49:19Z")
Of course not why would I? Free and fair elections would be welcome, Iā€™m a democrat Pap not an advocate of authoritarian regimes. ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Barry](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/not_barry/32/71329_2.png) [@Not\_Barry](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Not_Barry)\ **Post date:** [16 March 2022 07:57 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/the-war-invasion-in-of-ukraine/6414/413 "2022-03-16T07:57:11Z")
Iā€™ve heard theyā€™re losing a lot, and keeping figures incredibly low for the public back in Russia, the truth will come out, itā€™s obvious now that Russia will never be able to occupy, hold and keep a puppet in power so Ukraine will be free to elect who they want. A concession to Russia so they donā€™t invade again is for NATO and the west not to invite Ukraine to join NATO if they ask and a neutral zone of military is set up, a total cop out if you ask me but if it means Ukraine is free and can join the EU if it wishes at some point then maybe itā€™s something. Russia has lost this in so many ways, youā€™ve now Russian speakers who were pro Russian before this teaching their kids to speak totally in Ukrainian and rejecting anything Russian, to say Putin has fucked up is a mild understatement, and what about those sanctions? Many of them wonā€™t disappear. ---
**Author:** ![WorzelScummage](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/worzelscummage/32/73175_2.png) [@WorzelScummage](https://www.sotonians.com/u/WorzelScummage)\ **Post date:** [16 March 2022 08:06 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/the-war-invasion-in-of-ukraine/6414/414 "2022-03-16T08:06:11Z")
Itā€™s frankly mental how badly this has gone. ---
**Author:** ![pap](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/pap/32/74795_2.png) [@pap](https://www.sotonians.com/u/pap)\ **Post date:** [16 March 2022 08:13 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/the-war-invasion-in-of-ukraine/6414/415 "2022-03-16T08:13:53Z")
Iā€™ve read reports that theyā€™re using the Syria doctrine. This is less the shoot anything that moves policy, which might be understandable given the proximity of the two nations. As Iā€™ve said before, Iā€™m not taking anything at face value - but reading between the lines, if you have the Ukrainian president arming civilians, inviting foreigners to fight and begging Nato to put up a no-fly-zone, itā€™s not going that well. ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Barry](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/not_barry/32/71329_2.png) [@Not\_Barry](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Not_Barry)\ **Post date:** [16 March 2022 08:22 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/the-war-invasion-in-of-ukraine/6414/416 "2022-03-16T08:22:44Z")
Why wouldnā€™t a leader of a nation being invaded by a vastly larger number ask for help from sympathetic nations? You think they should fight it alone? And the asking for foreign fighters is rich considering Putin has got Chechens and Syrians there fighting for him. The Russians are getting beaten badly and are having to resort to Syrian tactics of bombing indiscriminately (which is against the Geneva convention but hey when have the Russians ever played fair?) in civilian areas. I donā€™t know where you get your media Pap but every source I can see available says the same of large Russian casualties and a very very slow advance, a military disaster. ---
**Author:** ![pap](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/pap/32/74795_2.png) [@pap](https://www.sotonians.com/u/pap)\ **Post date:** [16 March 2022 08:26 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/the-war-invasion-in-of-ukraine/6414/417 "2022-03-16T08:26:42Z")
If it was going well. ---
**Author:** ![CB-Saint](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/cb-saint/32/95251_2.png) [@CB-Saint](https://www.sotonians.com/u/CB-Saint)\ **Post date:** [16 March 2022 09:41 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/the-war-invasion-in-of-ukraine/6414/418 "2022-03-16T09:41:23Z")
I donā€™t think it is going well for either side The Russians have got bogged down militarily and miscalculated the western response The Ukrainians have been bombed to shit and are facing a generation of rebuilding and the hardships that brings. Not to mention that 3m have fled and a good chunk of those will not return. That will take a long time for the country to recover from that exodus ---
**Author:** ![Polski\_Filip](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/polski_filip/32/75318_2.png) [@Polski\_Filip](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Polski_Filip)\ **Post date:** [16 March 2022 09:46 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/the-war-invasion-in-of-ukraine/6414/419 "2022-03-16T09:46:36Z")
I discovered a problem yesterday. The first wave of ā€œrefugeesā€ were the Audi, BMW & VW Tourag drivers. And not one of them knows the local Polish Traffic rulesā€¦ Carnage out there, almost as bad as Brit drivers of the same machines FFS Also, causing a related problem. They have taken over all the high end hotel rooms and as such, normal tourists are seeing $200 or more per night for places that were 30 or 40 quid a month ago. So no income againā€¦ FFS ---
**Author:** ![Donkey\_Schlong](https://www.sotonians.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Donkey\_Schlong](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Donkey_Schlong)\ **Post date:** [16 March 2022 09:48 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/the-war-invasion-in-of-ukraine/6414/420 "2022-03-16T09:48:56Z")
The fact remains that it could be going badly for both sides and Russia could still be making progress such are the numbers. I donā€™t trust anything in the media on either side regarding deaths. The BBC is churning out masses of what is very clearly pure propaganda. But on the balance of probability weā€™re talking about terrains and cities of a kind that Russians will be very familiar. Weā€™re talking about flat open plains not mountain tunnel fortresses. We have a Russian army of superior numbers many of whom will be familiar with fighting sieges of cities from their recent time fighting in Syria. I find it very hard to believe that things are going as badly for the Russian and as well for the Ukrainians as the media is making out. Zelensky is also clearly softening his negotiating position. ---
**Author:** ![CB-Saint](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/cb-saint/32/95251_2.png) [@CB-Saint](https://www.sotonians.com/u/CB-Saint)\ **Post date:** [16 March 2022 09:50 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/the-war-invasion-in-of-ukraine/6414/421 "2022-03-16T09:50:36Z")
> [@Polski\_Filip](#): > > The first wave of ā€œrefugeesā€ were the Audi, BMW & VW Tourag drivers. The better off are usually the first out of Dodge ---
**Author:** ![CB-Saint](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/cb-saint/32/95251_2.png) [@CB-Saint](https://www.sotonians.com/u/CB-Saint)\ **Post date:** [16 March 2022 09:57 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/the-war-invasion-in-of-ukraine/6414/422 "2022-03-16T09:57:31Z")
The Russians have lost more soldiers than they care to admit and the Ukrainians have inflated the number they reckon they have killed. As has always been the case in every war ever fought. I reckon if you split the difference you might not be too far off As for being used to the terrain, one thing to consider was a lot of the Russian units were from the East - several thousand miles away. Also I think I am right in saying part of the problem with the plains is that the mud has made some areas impassable hence the 40km convoys down the main arterial roads [Previous page](https://www.sotonians.com/t/the-war-invasion-in-of-ukraine/6414.md?page=20) [Next page](https://www.sotonians.com/t/the-war-invasion-in-of-ukraine/6414.md?page=22)